this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2024
958 points (94.3% liked)

Science Memes

11217 readers
2748 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.

This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.



Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] kersplomp@programming.dev 146 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

We should always add a mental asterisk to the names of male researchers who discovered things while women were oppressed.

That said, this meme is playing loose and fast with the specifics, which undermines that important message.


Just picking the first one:

Payne's work was her Ph.D. thesis and Russell did not tell her not to publish it, her advisor did. The advisor told her not to rock the boat in her thesis. This is good advice that even Einstein was given. Payne, badass, declined.

When Russell later reproduced her research, he cited her thesis as the "most important research" he'd seen on the subject.

The real snub with Payne is that her title was "Technical Advisor" for 20 years despite being well regarded as a full time professor. It wasn't until the 50's she was recognized as a professor, when she was also made chair of the department.

Source: https://www.amnh.org/learn-teach/curriculum-collections/cosmic-horizons-book/cecilia-payne-profile

[–] g_the_b@lemmy.world 66 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They're all like that. For some reason trying to make the men out as bad people... When nothing really happened. Wish people could try to appreciate women's contributions without trying to diminish men's contributions or create a false narrative.

[–] fsxylo@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 months ago

Everything has to be a Hollywood production. It's brainrot.

[–] Bonifratz@lemm.ee 123 points 2 months ago (2 children)

See also Rosalind Franklin who first discovered DNA's double helix structure (three men later received the Nobel Prize for this finding).

And more examples here.

[–] Bestaa@lemmy.world 74 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Franklin might have won the prize, had she not died 4 years before the prize was awarded. Rules forbid the Nobel being awarded to the deceased.

[–] Bonifratz@lemm.ee 7 points 2 months ago

True. But it's still three men named in the list of Nobel Prize winners, when a woman first made the actual discoveries. So even if there was no foulplay, it's important to shine a light on women like Franklin.

[–] Drewsteau@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Fuck Watson and Crick, all my homies hate Watson and Crick

[–] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 117 points 2 months ago

When I took some astronomy classes in the early 2000s, Jocelyn Bell was absolutely credited. In her own words:

It has been suggested that I should have had a part in the Nobel Prize awarded to Tony Hewish for the discovery of pulsars. There are several comments that I would like to make on this: First, demarcation disputes between supervisor and student are always difficult, probably impossible to resolve. Secondly, it is the supervisor who has the final responsibility for the success or failure of the project. We hear of cases where a supervisor blames his student for a failure, but we know that it is largely the fault of the supervisor. It seems only fair to me that he should benefit from the successes, too. Thirdly, I believe it would demean Nobel Prizes if they were awarded to research students, except in very exceptional cases, and I do not believe this is one of them. Finally, I am not myself upset about it - after all, I am in good company, am I not!

That said, yeah, I think she absolutely should have been awarded the Nobel prize. But while she did not, she has the admiration


rightly so


of many a budding astronomer.

[–] Asetru@feddit.org 76 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Lise Meitner went on to be forgotten? In my city, a big street bears her name, including the tram station there. Fittingly, it's the tram to the University that stops there. Essentially, her name is hammered into all students' heads here.

[–] Jesus_666@lemmy.world 36 points 2 months ago

My reaction exactly. I studied there as well. Lise Meitner may be underappreciated but at least someone made sure she's not forgotten.

[–] CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world 30 points 2 months ago

Not to mention she’s been immortalized as Meitnerium

[–] macros@feddit.org 28 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Also she herself said that Otto Hahn deserved the Nobel prize. She and Otto Frisch (far kess known than she is!) did the theoretical work regarding the physics behind it.

But Pauli got the physics prize that year, and he sure deserves it. Maybe one of the later prices could have been awarded to her.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Metz@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Right? In germany there is a lot named after her. e.g. The Institute for Nuclear Research in Berlin is the “Hahn-Meitner-Institut” (after her and Otto Hahn). There are severals Schools and streets named after her all over the country.

[–] Tja@programming.dev 8 points 2 months ago

Agree. There's a street, a monument, a research facility and two schools with her name in a 10km radius of me.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 60 points 2 months ago

Don't forget Mary Anning!

Anning searched for fossils in the area's Blue Lias and Charmouth Mudstone cliffs, particularly during the winter months when landslides exposed new fossils that had to be collected quickly before they were lost to the sea. Her discoveries included the first correctly identified ichthyosaur skeleton when she was twelve years old; the first two nearly complete plesiosaur skeletons; the first pterosaur skeleton located outside Germany; and fish fossils. Her observations played a key role in the discovery that coprolites, known as bezoar stones at the time, were fossilised faeces, and she also discovered that belemnite fossils contained fossilised ink sacs like those of modern cephalopods.

Anning struggled financially for much of her life. As a woman, she was not eligible to join the Geological Society of London, and she did not always receive full credit for her scientific contributions. However, her friend, geologist Henry De la Beche, who painted Duria Antiquior, the first widely circulated pictorial representation of a scene from prehistoric life derived from fossil reconstructions, based it largely on fossils Anning had found and sold prints of it for her benefit.

[–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 36 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Considering how this graph... Hmm... Shall we say... Takes a number of creative liberties with actual history surrounding these great women, doesn't this graph undermine its own message?

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 30 points 2 months ago

Shout out to the bad bitch Margaret Hamilton who was a coder for the Apollo 11 mission. She was a huge inspiration to me as a kid and they made a Lego set that included her.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

My former best friend one day out of the blue told me he thought that women are on average smarter than men but are not capable of rising to the very top level of human intellect. His "proof" of this was the fact that nearly all major scientific discoveries have been made by men. Needless to say, he thought of himself as being at the highest level of human intellect - despite having made no major scientific discoveries himself (or even minor ones for that matter). This was the beginning of the end of our friendship, and I'm only embarrassed that it wasn't instantly the end of our friendship.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Technotica@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

At least Lise Meitner is not forgotten, I currently work in a building on Lise-Meitner Street!

[–] Prethoryn@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Where is my fucking lady Rosalind Franklin at?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] psycotica0@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Actually, that Hertha Ayrton quote at the end? About the cats or whatever? That was actually me. I said that.

[–] uis@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I wamted to post Ada Lovelace and Maria Curie, but then I read image.

[–] wieson@feddit.org 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Marie Skłodowska Curie

For our polish friends

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (7 children)

I always take posts like this with a big grain of salt. Yes, women were oppressed and in many places still are, but posts like these tend to stretch and exaggerate the truth because they WANT to find oppression of women. They WANT the fight, and they want the fight to still be here and burning brightly today to justify actions many would find questionable at best.

EDIT: Fun fact for you, in the USA in 1970 8% of stem workers were female. Today, its 27%.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] EarthShipTechIntern@lemm.ee 11 points 2 months ago

Missing the mention of Einstein's first wife?

[–] steeznson@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Could also add Marie Curie in there. I didn’t realise until recently that there is a lot of controversy over France “claiming her achievements” since she was born and educated in Poland.

[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I think you missed the point of the list. See the third line? "Too bad a man was given all the credit." The France/Poland thing isn't related.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] anzo@programming.dev 7 points 2 months ago

It's not sexist to credit the french. France is gay. /s

[–] buzz86us@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

And of course Headie Lamar gets snubbed with this graphic.. The woman who is the reason most of us are online, and able to listen to our podcasts

[–] Klear@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

I believe her contributions are farily well known nowadays. The idea was probably to highlight those that most people never heard of.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 9 points 2 months ago

Nowadays the men have learned to be more subtle and would say “and thanks to Lise for arranging the socials”.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago

Meitner at least got element out of this

[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 7 points 2 months ago (5 children)
[–] yannic@lemmy.ca 25 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Probably people who have heard of these scientists being recently credited for their work.

The phrase "all the credit" is a bit sensationalist, and it's too easy to poke holes in, although I do concede that "Most of the credit" is vague and "All of the Nobel Prize recognition and prize money / peer accolades" is a bit too wordy.

It's important that we don't weaken the cause by easily disprovable exaggeration. These scientists did not get nearly enough credit; true.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Half this list is nobel prizes going to supervisors when the woman in question was either a student or dead, neither of which qualify for a nobel prize.

It's good to stand against discrimination, but there is no need to embellish the truth.

[–] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Have you met men on the internet lately? like a 1/3 chance of intense misogyny.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

The nobel prize is a fucking self congratulatory sham anyway if you read about its history

[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

They gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a war criminal.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›