this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2024
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I just moved into a student dorm for a semester abroad, and beforehand I emailed them asking whether they had ethernet ports to plug my router into (I use it to connect all my devices, and for WiVRn VR streaming). They confirmed that I could, but now that I'm here the wifi login portal is asking me to accept these terms from the ISP, which forbid plugging in a router. There's another clause that forbids "Disruptive Devices" entirely, defined as:

“Disruptive Device” means any device that prevents or interferes with our provision of the 4Wireless to other customers (such as a wireless access point such as wireless routers) or any other device used by you in breach of the Acceptable Use Policy;

So what are my options? I don't think I can use this service without accepting the terms, but also I was told by the student dorm support that I could bring a router, which contradicts this.

EDIT: some additional context:

  • dorm provider is a company separate from my uni (they have an agreement but that's it)
  • ISP (ask4) is totally separate from dorm provider, and have installed a mesh network that requires an account. On account creation, there are many upsells including one for connecting more than one device. The "free" plan only allows me to sign in on a single device, and I can upgrade to two devices for 15 pounds.
  • ethernet requires login too
  • VR streaming requires a high performance wifi 6 network, which is why I bought this router (Archer C6 from tp-link)
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[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

That seems pretty standard stuff. My dorm had the same policy, because they operated their own mesh network and didn't want students sending out their own radio signals that would have absolutely made their wireless network not work well.

Is there some reason you need your own router?

[–] mat@linux.community 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Yeah, the interference argument is fair, but I think this is also the ISP (totally separate third party) trying to protect the paid plans they sell for connecting more than one device...

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

trying to protect the paid plans they sell for connecting more than one device

It's definitely 90% of the reason

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 0 points 2 months ago (5 children)

So it's a network operated by a third party? That's interesting. The handful of universities I've been to maintain their own.

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[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 months ago

probably protecting against the 5g. people might be allergic to it.

[–] scholar@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Looks like that tos is just for the wifi network, if you've got an ethernet port then that won't be using the wifi.

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[–] Confused_Emus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago (25 children)

Not all that surprising. I don’t know of any network manager who’d happily allow rogue routers on their network, particularly if you still have it configured as a DHCP device and not a pass through device, which most college students do not consider and will very much disrupt campus network performance.

[–] mat@linux.community 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)

I'd be happy to set my device to passthrough mode, but I think the ISP prevents peer-to-peer connections (which my laptop would make to the VR headset) unless you buy one of their plans for Chromecast/smart TVs. Would that prevent it from working? And would I still be able to connect multiplw devices despite their one-device limit?

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[–] Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

So most dorms don't want you using your own routers because a bunch of student routers causes A LOT of inference.

You should probably reach out not to the dorm folks but the university networking folks as they're the ones that will ultimately make the decision on whether or not to turn things off/disconnect you.

A cheap networking switch would probably be okay by them to get some more wired connections in your dorm room (routers aren't really a great way to do that).

https://www.amazon.com/Linksys-Business-LGS105-Unmanaged-Enclosure/dp/B00FV12VSW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=3PUXDK6TFLZIT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zm2b2eGNCSReGFJuUskv6-s3cUVDK12lfqOmf729Jjx1nw8mI07xRjx4RZCcnWDhplIUW-7IOfSn6R7TMu0yVy_k9hGXtOs0SNS7RO8sN4RI5aa_8-iwSOXz6biaUH5pE27eM8eYyBzJl9tkYxX4erfrbMwkWwhSrqIKQGOSqx1DQ1z5ZiDGCyQ_u0k8IhaN1Ra-Zpsr07cg-ZjJnDz6lA.iHHYMOhPc6OW0LmOOPkf8taxFxWnD5Sbwy_NxZwTQbU&dib_tag=se&keywords=network+switch&qid=1725717407&sprefix=network+%2Caps%2C186&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1

[–] mat@linux.community 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

That's good advice, however this dorm is not part of my uni (just a partner to provide housing) and the internet provider whose T&C I'm expected to accept and sign up for 1y of are a totally separate legal entity, that has a bunch of upsells for stuff like "connect more than 1 device" (which my router/AP would basically be bypassing, and I think that's what these clauses are about). About the interference, is it possible to limit it severely while still having a reliable connection just within my room? I only really want to connect:

  1. Laptop (wired)
  2. Phone
  3. VR for streaming from laptop
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[–] noride@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago

It's a security\legal risk to allow adhoc wireless networks within your environment, pretty much any organization above a certain size has the same restrictions.

You could theoretically allow anyone to access your router directly, which would let them bypass agreeing to the Acceptable Use Policy, for example, shifting liability back to the organization for that users behavior.

[–] lowleveldata@programming.dev 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It just says you can't use things that allow you to connect more devices than agreed. Which means nothing without knowing how many devices were allowed to begin with.

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[–] moo@lemmy.moocloud.party 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think a lot of the suggestions here pretty solid; you can essentially do them all. I ran a similar setup, but it was not double NAT just data capped so I had to toggle my MAC every now and then.

If you do introduce a switch from the wall, you can at least get your gaming devices directly on. You can then run Wifi network off the router for your phone, and WiVRn.

As others have mentioned though these terms are there for security, your WiFi is a risk to the network. If the school is on your side and you are prepared to mitigate that risk by keeping the router updated and choosing strong auth, you could even tune the transmit power and rssi drop off but I have a feeling if they understood you were going to run WiFi and not just a switch they also would have said no.

So this setup could put you at risk of losing internet I guess according to those terms

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[–] twinnie@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago

There’s various contractual reasons they may say this but ultimately they probably can’t tell. Those terms and conditions don’t count for anything and can’t be enforced because no reasonable reads them. I’d just go ahead with using your router and wait for somebody to say something (feign ignorance).

[–] zutto@lemmy.fedi.zutto.fi 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm not advocating for breaking any rules, but many people know that you can hide your wifi routers SSID. even fewer people know how to track these networks.

[–] mp3@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Most commercial networks systems have the ability to detect rogue access points by analysing the radio spectrum, and hiding the SSID will not avoid detection once traffic starts flowing to it.

And they can triangulate the position of the rogue AP.

[–] mat@linux.community 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Interesting about hiding SSIDs, I never knew why that option existed. I'm here on Erasmus so I don't want to risk too much by knowingly breaking rules... them triangulating it to my room and starting a legal case or something sounds real scary.

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

them triangulating it to my room and starting a legal case or something sounds real scary.

It's also incredibly unlikely unless you're actually causing problems

If you really want wireless, do the Ethernet > Desktop/Laptop with hotspot and limit it's TX power WAY down to minimal levels.

You should be able to use it within your dorm room fine, but will have trouble penetrating beyond the walls and will also make detecting and triangulation quite difficult

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[–] CaptainBasculin@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You can disable your router's wireless networking (or hide its SSID if you want to use wireless networking). It won't be an issue if you use either way. Since your dorm told you that you could use a router; these terms wont matter.

[–] SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Note that hiding its SSID won’t turn off the wireless broadcast which would be adding to the “noise” in whatever channel it’s using.

In this case you would want to turn off the wireless itself

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Ignorance is strength.

Pretend you never saw it, plug your router in, and don't worry about it.

If they do ask questions, you just made a innocent assumption.

[–] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] jet@hackertalks.com 0 points 2 months ago

Get a no-annual fee credit card from a major bank or credit union. Keep it open, only use it once a month to keep it open, never close it, and it will help your credit rating long term.

[–] subtext@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is honestly quite reasonable from the university. They will be putting in a lot of work to get something set up that’s strong enough for all the students, and messing that up is kind of a dick move.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I'm with you, but how is using your own router messing that up?

On the WAN side, its just a dhcp client, just like any other laptop/xbox etc

It's not reasonable for a ISP to dictate what CPE can be used on the network, as long as the CPE does not break the network, and routers are fairly well behaved clients by design.

[–] SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Rf interference. Similar to having multiple microwaves running near your router, or those old rf based baby monitors.

Congested the 2.4 or 5gz spectrum with noise causing noise and retransmits or outright stopping the wifi from working.

If you have an old radio that does AM find a AM channel that isn’t broadcasting and bring it near your router. You can actually “hear” the noise those things are putting out.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Happily the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz bands are unlicensed and open for public use.

Nothing our OP said indicated they wanted to run WiFi, but even if they did, they could choose a less noisy channel.

Nothing in the click through agreement talked about radios, or bands.

Any body could turn their phone into a cellular hotspot, or have a starlink hotspot, and that is nobody elses business. This is no different.

Letting the network dictate what you can run in your own home is MaBell levels of authoritarianism, but more to the point, its unenforceable

[–] SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

But this is a dorm. A shared environment with close proximity.

If everyone had their own Wi-Fi transmitting at normal power there would be too much interference that even channel hopping wouldn’t fix it.

Not to say that there can’t be some middle ground but the Wild West attitude isn’t kosher either.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 0 points 2 months ago

ok.... so our friendly OP can use their router without turning on the radios and everyone is happy? let's advise that then

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

OP already mentioned that the student WiFi is being run entirely by a third party ISP and they have more expensive paid plans for more than one device.

Guaranteed this isn't about running an optimal network (Though I'm sure if pressed about it they'll start spouting excuses similar to yours) and all about company greed and constant profit growth.

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[–] mat@linux.community 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Yeah I definitely don't want to hurt the network for other folks staying at this (very large) dorm complex/building. Can I reasonably run it at low power (since I only need it in my room) and not have it bother anyone?

[–] SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Depends on whether you can adjust the Tx level but then you run into FCC level stuff that most people avoid (since boosting it is a huge issue with interference)

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[–] dynamic_generals@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Lending some anecdotal support, the wireless network of the large flagship I went to (in the time spanning the late oughts to the early 10s) operated well enough for the the time while allowing students to plug their own wireless routers into the single Ethernet port they otherwise us to split. And this was back in 802.11g days; before all the channels of 5ghz.

Students had a DC++ service running on the campus MAN, fed it by downloading Linux isos over the onion network… it wasn’t just us nerds doing it either- nearly everyone had a Wi-Fi router.

As time marches on, more rules are made, none are repealed, and student freedom and innovation is stifled. Then those growing up in relative freedom grow grumpy as they watch things enshittify for the people who won’t have known an alternative. I usually apply this thought to privacy philosophy but I see it fits here too.

[–] LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org 0 points 2 months ago (11 children)

psst

Hey, kid, don't tell anyone I told you about this

*Lifts coat

iodine
https://code.kryo.se/iodine
Description: tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server
This is a piece of software that lets you tunnel IPv4 data through a DNS
server. This can be usable in different situations where internet access is
firewalled, but DNS queries are allowed.

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[–] FlatFootFox@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is pretty typical for universities. They don’t want the airwaves clogged, doubling up NAT can lead to networking wonkiness, and they don’t want you giving university network access to unauthorized folks with an open AP.

When you say VR streaming, you just mean wireless from your PC to the headset, right? There’s a chance you could do that with an offline wireless router if the VR experiences you’re looking to play are single player.

[–] mat@linux.community 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yep, that's what I mean with VR streaming. The PC connects thru eth to the router, and the headset is connected to the router's AP via wifi. I get the point about unauthorized access, but I set strong passwords and never share them. I think this clause is more about preventing me from connecting more than one device to the internet, which they want to charge me for if I do. Obviously having my own AP would allow me to easily circumvent that.

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[–] peanuts4life@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 months ago

I wonder if you could just use your PC to hotspot when you need to use VR.

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

It shouldn’t surprise you that major organizations like to protect their infrastructure.

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