I'd be a fan of a law that companies who drop support of their product would have to release code that lets 3rd parties or users themselves offer alternative support. If you want to fully abandon a product opensource it. If you're a big company that doesn't want to do that release a feature for users to self host before you cut ties. I know it's not a simple thing to do in the current world but if laws mandated it then tech would have no choice but to adapt.
this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2024
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This would be an excellent law/regulation that makes complete sense.
The major companies can most definitely manage this (although they will cry crocodile tears).
Effective [some future date], in order to sell any device connected to the Internet (or Bluetooth, or whatever), you must register your entire codebase and all internal documentation with the FTC, and keep it updated, along with any signing keys to lock bootloaders. The day you abandon support, if you haven't provided everything required for end users to take complete control of their device, your code base and any other IP enters the public domain, and the FTC uses their discretion on release of keys.
It would take new laws, and you'd have to be careful with language and structure to prevent abuse of "third party" code and abuse of corporate structure to try to prevent old devices from being usable, but you could do it.
I have had a similar idea. Basically some third party that is trusted to be the escrow for all the source code and documentation would basically release it once the company stops supporting it.
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Just because a product went defunct does not mean the entire code base is obsolete to the company.
Suppose I release software that makes a profit for a while, then falls off and starts costing me money, obviously time to retire that thing. However, a ton of code in that original product was a stepping stone for newer projects. I now have two choices.
A) Drop support and give world+dog my code, giving everyone a look into my existing products.
B) Keep losing money on the old project and make up for it by overcharging for my latest work.
That's a lose-lose proposition.
Your self-hosting solution sounds mighty fair!
I’ve been in software for more than 20 years now. I’ve done some pretty innovative things from time to time. There is nothing I have ever done or seen in any proprietary code base at any company I’ve ever worked at that isn’t at every other company. The only unique thing at any company is how all the puzzle pieces get connected. It’s pure ego to think that any idea you have in that now open source project is unique or what’s giving you any competitive advantage in your other projects.
If there's nothing unique or special in any company's code base, then why does SAP software suck so much more than anything else?
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This is a commendable goal; though it would still rely on good faith that a lot of these companies won’t have.
They’d rather screw the users anyway, sell the IP and let it rot within the maws of some holding company.
We’ll need some clauses that the tech cannot go inactive as it trades hands as well.
Further, some teeth will be needed toward feature deactivation, as there’s nothing stopping a company from yanking features and packaging it up as efficiencies made or product evolution.
Oops, the company we outsourced the software development to went under!
We're soooooorry
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Dooo it!
“IDK, depends on how many people buy our idea. Would you like a smart hair dryer?”
"As long as line go up. After that, who knows?"
It might provide value to our customers, but does it provide value to our ShArEhOlDeRs?
It would be a nice gesture, but I will believe those promises of support when they have teeth to them.
What happens if they stop doing it? Do I have to sue them for breach of contract, have to prove actual damages, and settle the class action lawsuit for $5 in store credit?
What happens if the company goes bankrupt or creates a new subsidiary to service the product and the subsidiary folds?
What level of support are they obligated to provide? What issues must be fixed and how promptly?
I’d be a fan of a law that requires local control through standardized hardware and software protocols for any devices sold.
And no, I don’t think the standard needs to be codified into law, but I do think it should meet minimum requirements.
To clarify, the FTC is being urged to craft this regulation. They have not recently urged for this regulation. Gotta love the English language.
Products that change the service they offer after you purchase it should also be eligible for a full refund (plus a % on top for the hassle). Such as offering a service through the product for free at the time of purchase but then moving it being a monthly subscription paywall later on, or just removing the feature completely.
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It's not only that, the issue is that they release updates that slows down the device, and you get so irritated that you buy a new "faster" device
I’m not an IT expert, so I don’t know how feasible this is, but they should have at least two branches of updates. One that is strictly security and the other that are all the bells and whistles. I would love to stick with an old os if it’s not vulnerable to the outside world.
It's called a LTS (Long Term Support) builds versus the current build. There is even sometimes ELTS (Extended Long Term Support)
(Please do not start a Linux discussion by replying to this comment)
Or they take out 70% of the features it had at launch and make you wonder why you still use the thing anymore.
Apple Mindset. I gave up on the iPhone after v3 bricked within a month of the v4 release.
Android does the same shit, and I hate it.
I've had to give up phones that still worked fine because the app updates killed the responsiveness
Android does the same shit, and I hate it.
My OnePlus has been solid for the last five years. Idk about the Pixel, though.
Yeah I've never had this issue with Android, not least of which is because you're able to just root it and install whatever ROM/OS you want. If Google pushes an unstable update just wipe that shit and put Lineage on it.
Apple only gets away with it because they put their users in a walled garden where you have no choice but to receive Apple's updates on their timeframe. I quit that life in 2006 when they updated my iPod Touch into uselessness and haven't come across the problem again since switching to Android.
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It’s really in the tech sector’s best interest to do that anyway. Because as a consumer, I’m now quite hesitant to buy a thing without knowing if it’s going to be properly supported.
We’ve all been burned before. My Sonos webradio lost functionality for a while after some backend streaming service was defunct. They did manage to fix that but it meant installing a new app, new account that sort of thing. It’s annoying- but at least the manufacturer did the right thing to keep it working. I can only imagine how frustrating it would’ve been if the entire thing stopped working with no support…
Basically, that experience is why I’m no longer willing to buy things that wholly depend on outside servers and the like to keep working. There’s too much risk of ending up with an expensive paperweight.
New account = new TOS I imagine?
Well the new account was for the new streaming service which replaced the old one. And since that’s a different company… different TOS, obviously.
It was mildly annoying, but at least it means I can still use the radio I bought.
I only buy stuff that runs on standards and is accessible by FOSS or open protocols. I've never had to retire something because of the decision of a tech company.
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A big problem is things tied unnecessarily to an internet service. We need to educate people that there may be alternatives and we need our purchasing decisions to support that. For example, most home automation stuff should NOT require or use any internet.
The article calls it “software tethering”. If any support commitments encourage manufacturers to stop that, we’ll all be better off. Let’s start with requiring users be clearly notified of software tethering, so they know what they’re buying
Let me own my fucking device so I can use it. Please. We are creating so much waste cause some program can’t run. It’s absurd.
At least make it required to not brick at EOS if it's a device that would otherwise run. Like a laundry machine.
There’s no reason a laundry machine requires an internet connection
- if an internet connection provides additional functionality such as notification, it easier to have the machine work normally without notifications
- there’s no reason a machine requires an internet connection, especially with the release of the Matter/Thread standard to unify home automation local protocols
When I got new machines about five years ago, I briefly considered connected machines. It would be really nice to get notifications on my phone but how can it possibly cost that much and why does the only option depend on a cloud service?
I think a LAN-connected machine would be good, if you could use an app or open-source, well-documented API to control the machine, but there is no reason a washing machine should need to connect to the outer internet. You can VPN into your local network if it's that necessary to control it away from home.
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Can’t you just set a timer on your phone for 30 minutes
I do set a timer on my watch according to what the machine estimates: 59 minutes for a standard wash and 1:15 for a standard dry. Sometimes the estimate is off, so it’s not perfect.
Then again, why do I have to remember to have my phone or watch in order to use the laundry?
An actual notification could be better because I don’t have to have my phone nor remember to do it. Sort of like in the olden days when the machines had that god awful buzzer you could hear throughout the house: it just worked at least if you’re home. Now the machines let out a pleasant little tinkle that I can’t hear from the living room, plus what if I want to be outside.
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Although I do this, I do also have a counterpoint to this. I will set my machine to go and it says 60 minutes. Cool, set a timer for that long. Come back in 60 minutes, and it still has 5 minutes left. I ended up figuring out the machine is somehow determining that at 60 minutes, the clothes/blankets/whatever is still too wet, so it's adding time to the spin cycle to try and spin them more. Having it just ping me would be amazing, but also I do not want to have a machine that refuses to operate without WiFi or some crap.
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I agree. But the people who have one should not need to buy new machines just because support ended. And it's my understanding that it's currently the case with several brands.
For real, 90% of AI is off-device on phones, and that is bullshit.
this is so infuriating
I have a Hatch, which i have programed for my babies bed time, just play white noise sound at this time, turn off this sound in the morning, play bird song when hes supposed to wake up
I specifically got the older model, since the newer model has a lot of these basic features locked behind a paywall, while the old one they are just free.
Went traveling, and without a wifi connection it wont even do this. Apparently making an alarm clock remember its settings without a wifi connection is too much work.
In October of last year my mom came home from the ICU, now unable to get out of bed. I replaced all the bulbs in the house with smart bulbs and put the fans on a little smart plug thing. It made me really like the idea of home smart home features, but I'm not techy. They're just Alexa enabled for her to use with the fire stick, and I use google home on my phone for em.
Can you offer any advice for ones that don't require internet? Every time our power goes out (any time there's a storm), I have to go around and reset them while they flash at me like the worst night club
Philips Hue have the ability to work without internet and it seems like a lot of people like them, though they are kind of expensive. I've used Sengled bulbs before and they were fine, not sure how well they work without internet. But I think for you the problem isn't the bulbs reliance on the internet, they just seem very forgetful. For both Hue and Sengled, when the power comes back on after being out, they just start working again on their own after about a minute. No need to reset anything.
The main non-techy issue even for locally controllable smart things is that the big voice assistants are all entirely internet dependent. So even though Hue bulbs are technically controllable locally if your internet is out, Alexa and Google Home both won't be able to do anything with them.
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A more important thing is update schedule, like oneplus used to state that they support their device for 3 years, but they only have one year of reasonably frequent update, after that it is like yearly update.
I’d like to see a requirement that products and devices which have been deemed by their manufacturer to be end of sale/support/repair/life are required to be unlocked, with technical schematics and repair documentation made freely available, upon request of the owner.
Software open-sourced, too.
Would be nice, but I'd be happy with instructions on how to flash FOSS firmware onto it, and a description of the API surface so individuals could make their own compatible firmware.
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