this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

The HIPAA concerns are very alarming. And I agree with the spirit if the article. However, I'm not sure the article is correct when it says Recall cannot be disabled. I've already seen other articles telling you how to turn it off. The fact that it's opt-out and nit opt-in is a huge issue, though.

[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The problem with it isn't that MS says it can be disabled, because like everything MS does it breaks its own rules constantly. I have worked in HIPAA environments and making systems block potential MS systems is a constant cat and mouse game only accomplished by firewall appliances that don't have MS software in them

[–] aodhsishaj@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Who the fuck is making a Firewall appliance with windows software on it. Some *nix or BSD or custom bare metal kernel is what a firewall should be. You have to have very low level access to properly secure traffic on a network. Microsoft often breaks the OSINT Framework ffs, I'd never trust them as a firewall.

[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I guess you haven't used Azure much?

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 5 months ago

I'm referring to Fortigate inside of azure, basically it's a Fortigate but it is a VM on the azure hosts in your virtual space inside the azure cloud. The MS global network that is the Azure cloud systems is pretty cool in lots of ways. Just MS is an evil empire and it sucks that they drive the world

[–] umami_wasbi@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Actually it is more than a local problem. Since Recall shipped with opt-out, means every computer will have this enabled. Even if you truned it off, the computer on the other end may still capture your data.

Say you said something here, regret about and delete it, but right before a user have Recall enabled see it and can just dig out your now deleted comment. Not good. This applies to HIPAA data or not.

This is essentailly a local search engine that index everything you see and others said in near real time, without repecting robots.txt.

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[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 0 points 5 months ago

No, it's the opposite. Lack of innovation and failure to adapt to new technologies and new trends would be a way to commit suicide. Betteridge's law applies here.

Recall specifically may be a misstep in its current form. But the overall drive to come up with applications for AI is not. it's a reasonable strategy. You can't call the whole thing a failure because one product has problems. Microsoft didn't curl up and die after Windows ME, to use a more extreme example.

[–] mp3@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There is no way this Recall feature doesn't backfire or gets breached.

[–] Noerttipertti@sopuli.xyz 0 points 5 months ago

If couple reports are true, it is already breached and can be mined for info.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

I've thought this ever since Windows 8 (and when I went from dual-boot to Linux only). In retrospect, at least Ballmer treated Windows like a PC operating system.

Ever since Nadella took over, it seems like MS is trying to turn Windows into ChromeOS but for Microsoft's cloud services. Pretty sure they want PCs to be thin clients tied to subscriptions. No fucking thanks.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Windows 8! Haha! Ahh, I'd call it the "New Coke" of Windows but that probably wouldn't help anyone who wasn't there.

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They need to stop polishing a turd. It was a great OS when it was windows 98, but at this point they've just tried to shove so much iOS and Linux into it that it's a shadow of its former self.

They need a shadow team to make a new product that isn't windows and is basically just a kde Linux distro.

[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 0 points 5 months ago

Ehhh, Win98 had serious issues but your argument would be mostly true for Windows 7 after it had been out for several years.

[–] HulkSmashBurgers@reddthat.com 0 points 5 months ago

The new Recall feature they're trying to push is creepy as fuck. No thanks.

Glad I moved to linux a few years ago so I don't have to worry about any of this trash.

[–] DaddleDew@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Corporations must generate growth to please their investors no matter what. If the CEO doesn't do it the board members will replace him with someone who will.

Microsoft cannot significantly generate growth by increasing their user base by making a more attractive product anymore. They have maxed out their share of the market. So they must pursue other ways to generate "growth", like data mining their customers to generate an additional source of income.

In this kind of situation you will see all sorts undesirable behaviors emerge from corporations like that, like lowering the quality of their products or cutting down on their workforce to "reduce cost" event though they are already turning a profit.

We will see this shit happen over and over again until we come up with a solution to this "infinite growth" problem.

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 0 points 5 months ago

until we come up with a solution to this "infinite growth" problem.

This is why cancer research is so important. But for now, we can try the old standbys of surgical removal and full-system poison.

[–] NutWrench@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

The problem with big companies like Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, etc is that once all the smart & creative people have gone, all you have left are the "line must always go up" business idiots, who have no idea what their company even does or how to fix it.

CoPilot / Recall is exactly the kind of End-stage, "let's screw our customers to death" idea the CEOs come up with before just their company implodes. Seriously. No one at Microsoft has thought this through beyond "data mining our customers."

How are other governments going to react to this? Will they trust their nation's secrets to an OS with such a blatant backdoor built into it? How does this "feature" work with search warrant requests? How secure can a database connected to an always-on Internet connection possibly be?

[–] NoiseColor@startrek.website 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

No Microsoft is not doing that. They are trying to be in front of the curve. If they succeed to integrate ai into the os and be the first, they will win.

[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Guess you never heard of Cortana....

[–] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Cortana was late to the market and it's functionality lagged way behind it's competitors.

[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

my point is that they had already integrated ai into the OS

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)
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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] NoiseColor@startrek.website 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That they want to commit suicide is more plausible?

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I was laughing at the idea that this is cutting edge and their intentions are to break new ground. Vs what it is: a brazen attempt to invade the fuck out of privacy for monetary gain

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[–] YurkshireLad@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No they’re simply trying to emulate Google and Facebook by becoming data gatherers and hoarders. They’ve been jealous of how much data other companies have gathered about people, and then realized they could easily do the same.

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[–] sasquash@sopuli.xyz 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I think they are preparing to go full cloud soon. You can make much more when customers have to pay something like 29$ a month to use the operating system. At home or work there will be just a thin client left. And this recall database will be worth much more to harvest data when you have to store it on azure. I am sure this will come eventually. Storing it local is just the first step. Once the backslash is over and everyone is using it they will move the stuff to the cloud. "You will own nothing and be happy".

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[–] geography082@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Global society is trying to commit suicide . It’s a normal behaviour when anyone gives a single fuck of common things. Everyone there is trying to make it and just leave . Most corporations is happening the same and I think is happening in societies too. There is nothing left to fight for in community.

[–] Talaraine@fedia.io 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I've seen this over and over in corporate environments.

Suit A has a terrible idea but enough fawning bootlickers to get the process moving.

Worker A, an employee, knows this is a terrible idea but doesn't say anything because they wanna keep their job.

Contractor B, obv a contractor, is there to make money and hopefully turn their stint into something more, so they speak up. And get canned.

What is it about Suits that they can't listen to literally anyone but their own echo chambers? Oh yeah, they're angling to jump into a bigger echo chamber. The 1%.

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[–] lewdian69@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I feel like the headline and all these comments have WAAAAAYYYYY too much faith in the technical savvy and/or privacy concerns of the average pc user. They are not committing suicide. They know that a very small minority will be upset by recall and AI but the vast majority don't know enough to care and definitely won't take the time to learn about why they should care.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

A massive breach on the scale that recall facilitates tends to change such things.

[–] lewdian69@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Our previous experiences with companies being hacked and leaking personal information on the "dark web" with little consequence to the bottom line anecdotally proves otherwise.

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[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

They are not committing suicide. They know that a very small minority will be upset by recall and AI but the vast majority don’t

run IT for big companies.

The small minority are those people. I do IT consulting and have contracts with several companies... We're road-mapped to remove windows from everything possible, we deal in PII and cannot risk any facet of microsoft's nonsense to collect it. And windows has a history of turning shit back on after being explicitly disabled. The business market is much larger than the general consumer market. And new workers who grow up in environments like businesses that work in Linux, will likely have had chromebooks in school. Meaning that Windows will not be defacto in those people's lives at all. This is shooting themselves in the foot (or possibly face) indeed.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

We're road-mapped to remove windows from everything possible, we deal in PII and cannot risk any facet of microsoft's nonsense to collect it.

Hey it only took til 2024 to get it on the roadmap! Hopefully complete by . . . 202. . . 7?

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 0 points 5 months ago

Hey it only took til 2024 to get it on the roadmap! Hopefully complete by . . . 202. . . 7?

By end of year outside of a handful of systems that are critical and cannot be replaced (My last count was literally a dozen). I spent a good chunk of last year ripping vmware and windows out of a lot of systems. I got halted this year because of SOC2 audits though... Gotta get back on the kill M$ train.

(Yay proxmox and whatever flavor of linux was easiest to support for a function [typically debian, sometimes alpine])

[–] lewdian69@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I work in healthcare IT. EHR clients and other necessary software that hold PHI (protected/private health information) run only on Windows. Recall seems to require a PC with a discrete 40 TOPs NPU so none of the current workstations. There is an opt-out already so I'm sure, though not positive, it can be turned off with a group policy.

I, optimistically, think this is a moot point for businesses. The goal is to get consumer data to sell not lose business purchases.

Cynically, I think it will be forced on consumers with, eventually, no option to turn it off.

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I work in healthcare IT. EHR clients [...] run only on Windows.

OpenEMR doesn't. I also do some work in healthcare too for a small office. (Though admittedly not a lot at all). Paying a license (for support) to an opensource works for my client. It's opensource so I know it's not going away... and openemr is completely browser based as far as client goes.

Getting locked into these bullshit softwares is half the battle though when it comes to corporate shenanigans.

Edit:

I, optimistically, think this is a moot point for businesses. The goal is to get consumer data to sell not lose business purchases.

I dunno... Some of this shit is leaking into the business/server side. More and more stuff appears that nobody asked for.

[–] TexasDrunk@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

I never thought I'd see one of Charlie's blogs posted around Lemmy unless it was about his books. Good to see him getting some recognition.

[–] nyan@lemmy.cafe 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Microsoft has essentially forgotten what a desktop GUI is for. It's a program launcher packaged with a set of libraries that make it easy for other programs to do complex things like displaying video in a uniform way, plus some system administration tools. Pack-ins not related to system administration should be limited to very basic software.

There may be something that Microsoft has added to Windows lately that isn't bloat, or evil, or both, but damned if I know what it is.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

They haven't forgotten. They don't care.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago

No. Lots of normies will happily turn these new features on.

[–] WashedOver@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I've been a user since Dos 5.0 and Windows 3.0.

Today I mostly use Linux Mint on my dual boot laptops and need to convert my main PC over to dual boot Mint next. I rarely boot into windows at home and if it wasn't for proprietary software at work running only on Windows I would have been done sooner.

I was mostly able to go from XP to 7 and avoided Vista and 8 altogether. Windows 10 was sort of ok with the ability to go back to a Windows 7 control panel when needed but it always felt half baked and unfinished to me.

I've just not been interested in 11 at all and the tidbits I'm hearing about Co-pilot reminds me of not only Clipit but the forcing of IE/ Edge constantly on user's especially after every larger update but to mention resetting the default PDF reader to edge. In a work environment of 20 plus shop PC's I was managing for low tech skill employees it was a pain in the ass chasing down the changes that were not made on my behalf.

What will be the Co-pilot's flavor of this new round of BS from Microsoft? The forcing of a cloud account is another headache I don't want to deal with either.

I will say Mint just mostly does what I need for my web browsing and general productivity needs without the constant game of trying to keep it the way I want it versus what MS wants for me with every update.

I'm at the stage of get off my lawn and screaming at a cloud in the sky next. That cloud is MS these days when adding in the annoyances of their Android keyboard *Swiftkey injecting Co-pilot and Bing into my searches. I've not played in Office 365 for a bit now but I can only imagine it's just as bad now.

[–] Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 5 months ago

They really are screwing it up. I’ve long been a proponent of dual booting. Yes I spend 99% of my time in linux, but I’ve always kept a windows drive going for the things that I’m just too lazy to get working. RGB lights, nicehash miner, exact audio copy, my aio cooler’s nzxt software for its blingy screen, the very off chance game that’s got a couple of glitches.

But like now, I don’t even want that OS on my PC. Even sitting on a drive that I hardly ever boot from. I view my password vault and it takes a screenshot of my credentials? Does it grab my bitcoin wallet too? At what point does windows 11 start scanning my local files simply because I booted the OS? When does it start scanning my other drives and OSs?

They just can’t be trusted anymore. And the fact that I’m actively solving the above mentioned pains in Linux and actively working to deleting the dual boot win11 os…. Well… when lazy people start doing work against you - you’ve screwed yourself.

[–] corroded@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (16 children)

Microsoft knows that the addition of adds to Windows, Recall, data mining, etc are not suicide. As far as tech news goes, Lemmy really exists in an echo chamber. The vast majority of us at least have some interest in technology. For the majority of the population, though, this isn't true. The typical person sees a computer as a tool to be used for other things. They're not reading articles about the latest release of Windows, new CPU technology, the latest GPU, etc. They're using their computer, and when it's time for an upgrade, they buy whatever suits their needs.

If I was to ask any of my family, or most of my coworkers, about any of the latest "controversies" surrounding Microsoft, they would have no idea what I was talking about. Microsoft obviously thinks that the added profits gained by monetizing their customers will offset the loss of 1% of their users that switch to Linux. They're probably right, too.

I like Windows, personally (well, Windows 10 at least). My unofficial rule has always been if it needs a GUI, then it runs Windows, otherwise, it runs Linux as a headless machine. Once Windows 10 is no longer a viable option, my unofficial rule will be "it runs Linux." Most people will not make this switch.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

That's partially true. The non-tech-savvy friends and family though need us to fix their Windows machines more or less constantly, and at some point we're not going to.

For me it was about 10 years ago when I forced everyone on to Mac at gunpoint just because I couldn't do Windows any.more. And even then it was another 6 years of explaining the differences in macOS and troubleshooting "office". Now when a friend's co-worker has a "computer problem" (read: Windows) I just say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and I gotta tell ya it's friggin sweet.

[–] Papergeist@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That's always been my policy. I never used apples so I gave a big 'ol shrug if that's what needed fixing.

Once I get more comfortable with Linux, I'll be giving the same shrug to windows troubleshooting.

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[–] Meltrax@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

They are too big and the corporate contracts are too ingrained in society. They won't lose anything meaningful over these terrible anti-consumer decisions because they don't care about individual consumers. As long as the bigger ticket contracts are in place, their income is totally safe.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Because CoPilot+ is purportedly trained on what users actually do, it looked plausible to someone in marketing at Microsoft that it could deliver on "help the users get stuff done". Unfortunately, human beings assume that LLMs are sentient and understand the questions they're asked, rather than being unthinking statistical models that cough up the highest probability answer-shaped object generated in response to any prompt, regardless of whether it's a truthful answer or not.

Hehehe.

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