this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2024
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[–] erg@lemmy.ca 165 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Billionaires. No one needs this much money and it's not helpful to have this much hoarded.

We get it, you won at capitalism, now actually contribute to the world around you

[–] PineRune@lemmy.world 58 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Nobody ~earns~ a billion dollars. It can only be stolen and exploited from other peoples' labor.

[–] testfactor@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Out of curiosity, let's say I'm a video game developer and I make games by myself (no team). I have a hit success and sell 300 milion copies worldwide for an average of $20 a piece and am now a billionaire.

Was that money stolen or exploited? If so, how? If not, how does that jive with your stated position?

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 15 points 7 months ago (26 children)

You're right that the claim that "being a billionaire requires exploitation" is massively oversimplified. But the situation you've described is essentially winning the lottery. Yeah, you put the time into think of, and execute on an idea, but everything else, from having the time to work on a possible flop, to it being a hit with 300 million people is ultra luck-based. 1000 people could do the exact same thing, and 1 might hit it big. It's gambling.

A more accurate phrasing of the original statement is: the only way to reliably amass billions of dollars in wealth is to exploit a supply/demand gap to the point of unsustainability.

A small business that operates with integrity, prioritizes the wellbeing of their society over their profits, doesn't price gouge, and doesn't discourage healthy competition will never become worth billions. They will always lose to competition that is willing and allowed to forego ethics for profits.

So 100 people could try your strategy of making a game that goes viral, and none of them are going to do it, most probably won't even make a profit. But then 100 people could try the strategy of exploitation, and they're going to reliably turn a profit. We allow a society where exploitation is a good investment.

Regardless of what people think of Peter Thiel he says out loud exactly what is wrong with late-stage capitalism: competition is for losers.

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[–] TreeGhost@lemm.ee 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

You are talking about Minecraft level success and even that took many years of success and being bought by one of the largest companies in the world to reach that many sells.

[–] testfactor@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I am talking about that level of success, yes. I in fact was using it's numbers and exact case information, lol.

Notch is a billionaire. The original claim was that no one becomes a billionaire without stealing or exploiting the value of the work of the laborers. My question then is, the value of whose labor did Notch steal or exploit to become a billionaire?

Note: He is also an awful person, so setting that aside for the moment. He's not awful in a way that directly relates to the question at hand.

[–] TreeGhost@lemm.ee 12 points 7 months ago (11 children)

So really he made his money from selling his company, not just from the game sales itself. And I would argue that he more or less got lucky more than he "earned" it, which I think he has said as much in interviews before.

I can't really speak to if he directly exploited labor, but I think we can pretty safely state that Microsoft has in fact done so repeatedly, and so indirectly at least, Notch benefited from that as well.

Now does that make him morally corrupt for taking that offer? Maybe. But I think any one of us would take the same offer if given the chance. But the reality of the situation is that getting rich from this kind of success is very slim, and even then the labor and effort involved is very much disproportionate to what others are earning for much more effort. And if he was taxed at a rate where is was no longer a billionaire, but just a millionaire, then his quality of life very likely won't change too much while many other people would benefit, assuming that tax money is actually going to public services, that is.

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[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 21 points 7 months ago

Yeah we really need an upper limit for wealth. In video games you would eventually cap the score, and billionaires are far in excess of that. Reminds me of that episode of Ducktales where Scrooge celebrates that he has become so rich he no longer has to pay taxes because they cannot be calculated any more.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.ml 72 points 7 months ago (3 children)

We would be ~1000 years in the future right now without Abrahamic faiths.

[–] ianovic69@feddit.uk 45 points 7 months ago (2 children)

You're probably right but I can't help thinking there would just be a different version, equally harmful and controlling, stunting our growth.

I think it's part of us that we have to outgrow as a species. For some reason I'm confident that will happen, given enough time.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Talked about this a ton with an LLM a couple months back. The thing is, there was never an alternative that captured a similar psychotic zealotry. All groups have their faiths throughout the same eras, but none match the exported hate, murder, and industrial scale slaughter of other humans like the Abrahamic faiths. Confusion Monks never invaded France. Buddhists never occupied Scandinavia. The hate, death, and constant conflict of the Abrahamic faiths are the absolute most toxic and harmful aspect of all of humanity. The most deadly conflict since WW2 has been in Africa over the last few years. Most of the west isn't even talking about this. It is a Abrahamic in origin. Gaza is the same. It has all been like this for 2500 years of constant killing. Other places had minor issues, but they never exported and in the present, these others are mostly in decline. If you take away the Abrahamic faiths, I bet all are gone in half a millennia. The man was as schizophrenic as the nations and peoples he left in his wake. Taming the ghost of the worlds most psychotic killer changes everything for the better.

[–] livus@kbin.social 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You're getting religion mixed up with technology and opportunity.

There's been plenty of violence, war, and extremism in the name of Buddha and Confucius. They absolutely can be used to justify genocide, just look at Myanmar. It's very difficult to find a major religion that has never produced fanatical sociopaths.

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[–] kirbowo808@kbin.social 63 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Poverty. It’s honestly something I don’t wish upon my worst enemy and the fact I’ve seen so much shit due to it, it’s something I can never get back and now will have to endlessly live with the pain until the day I literally die.

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[–] nivenkos@lemmy.world 49 points 7 months ago (2 children)
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[–] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 49 points 7 months ago

Religions, all of them

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 46 points 7 months ago (1 children)
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[–] ShadowRam@kbin.social 45 points 7 months ago (1 children)
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[–] shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee 43 points 7 months ago (28 children)
[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 12 points 7 months ago

Canada supports this message. God I wish that fuck would close his fucking trap.

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[–] boatswain@infosec.pub 42 points 7 months ago

Advertising

[–] Floufym@lemmy.world 39 points 7 months ago
[–] pr0927@lemmy.world 32 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)
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[–] Aarrodri@lemmy.ml 30 points 7 months ago
[–] Sunny@slrpnk.net 27 points 7 months ago
[–] Delascas@feddit.uk 27 points 7 months ago

Advertising, political parties and religions. All of them.

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 26 points 7 months ago (2 children)
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[–] Sparkega@sh.itjust.works 26 points 7 months ago (1 children)
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[–] Pete_topkevinbottom@lemmy.world 26 points 7 months ago
[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

A couple of strains of mosquito. We don’t need the two or three that bite humans. There are plenty of other strains that the bats and birds can eat.

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[–] Glytch@lemmy.world 23 points 7 months ago

Capitalism.

[–] airportline@lemmy.ml 23 points 7 months ago

Car-dependent suburban sprawl

[–] Asidonhopo@lemmy.world 22 points 7 months ago (3 children)
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[–] slazer2au@lemmy.world 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)
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[–] besbin@lemmy.ml 21 points 7 months ago

Cars. Or at least infrastructure systems that's entirely built just for cars.

[–] t_berium@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

Stocks and everything around them are an expression of the greed and baseness of our species.

[–] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 18 points 7 months ago

Human ego.

If we were to get rid of that the world would probably be significantly better place.

[–] tty5@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • populism
  • social media
  • using religion for control and power
  • mosquitoes
  • unchecked corporate greed
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[–] SuiXi3D@fedia.io 17 points 7 months ago
[–] chemicalprophet@lemm.ee 15 points 7 months ago
[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago
[–] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 14 points 7 months ago (3 children)
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[–] xep@fedia.io 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Advertising DRM Software Patents

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[–] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 12 points 7 months ago

ITT: religion and pests

[–] WreckingBANG@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago (9 children)

Humans.

(Yes i am a Misanthrope)

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[–] xilliah@beehaw.org 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)
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