this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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Let's get the AMAs kicked off on Lemmy, shall we.

Almost ten years ago now, I wrote RFC 7168, "Hypertext Coffeepot Control Protocol for Tea Efflux Appliances" which extends HTCPCP to handle tea brewing. Both Coffeepot Control Protocol and the tea-brewing extension are joke Internet Standards, and were released on Apr 1st (1998 and 2014). You may be familiar with HTTP error 418, "I'm a teapot"; this comes from the 1998 standard.

I'm giving a talk on the history of HTTP and HTCPCP at the WeAreDevelopers World Congress in Berlin later this month, and I need an FAQ section; AMA about the Internet and HTTP. Let's try this out!

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[–] Clav64@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I loved sharing this with my senior who hadn't seen it before, and it gave our small team a Ggod chuckle one afternoon. Thanks for your creation.

With the absence of a crystal ball, but with excellent inner knowledge, what future standards could you see being implemented in the next 10 years for internet?

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[–] Kaboomi@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m actually going to that conference! What’s the title of your talk? I’ll be sure to attend it!

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[–] fidodo@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

We're there any early internet standards you were super bullish on at the time that didn't get picked up? In retrospect, if it had been adopted do you think it would have had the impact you were hoping for

[–] Two9A@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

That's a tough one: most standards are codified as such because they're already seeing wide use. The major example of one that's been worked the other way around is IPv6: it's been a standard for a very long time, and still doesn't seem to be seeing adoption.

Of course, I wouldn't say I was bullish on IPv6. 32 bits is enough for anyone, right.

[–] lunaticneko@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You can unilaterally create another status code. What do you create?

[–] perviouslyiner@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

Wasn't there a new HTTP action recently proposed for "This is a JSON RPC request that we've convinced ourselves is actually REST and we've been using POST and someone finally pointed out that that was stupid"?

Not a new status code but still vaguely amusing.

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[–] blackstrat@lemmy.fwgx.uk 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A new RFC for IPv7. It's just IPv4 with an extra octet. Yes or no?

[–] Two9A@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think the extra address space of IPv6 is the problem holding back its adoption, so "IPv4 with another octet" would likely run into the same issues.

Not that it's a bad idea, it's just an idea that's unlikely to catch on.

[–] bric@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

What would you say is holding IPv6 back?

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[–] deepdivedylan@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Was RFC 7168 written with Captain Picard's tea Earl Gray, hot in mind? If not, are follow up modifications planned?

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[–] kromem@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

What's the funniest legitimate non-joke standardization detail you've come across?

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[–] RustedSwitch@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is the internet still kept in Big Ben?

[–] elvith@feddit.de 18 points 1 year ago

Yes, unless Jen needs to borrow it for a presentation.

[–] M_Reimer@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The number one question I would ask about HTTP would be: Why was the "Referer" header initially added and why wasn't it removed from standard to this day. In my opinion the server, I'm going to, should never know where I came from.

[–] Two9A@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I've just done some quick browsing to see if there's a written-down motivation for Referer existing, and there's this on the Wikipedia: "Many blogs publish referrer information in order to link back to people who are linking to them, and hence broaden the conversation."

Which I guess makes sense, in the context of the original use of HTTP as an academic publishing protocol, but it's gained cruft and nefariousness since wider adoption came about.

There are good arguments for stripping Referer from the standard, and yours is one of the most cogent; if Referer is still a thing in another 30 years, I'd be surprised.

[–] kalleboo@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

In the early days of hypertext there was also a lot of talk of β€œthe semantic web”, where one proposal was that all links should be two-way, refer may have been a compromise to let people try to implement that on top of the one-way HTTP/HTML

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[–] ryannathans@lemmy.fmhy.ml 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do you feel about the internet being "stuck" with an MTU of 1500?

[–] Two9A@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is kinda the problem with widely deployed standards like TCP/IPv4: if you have even one device out there that's on the "old" standard, it won't be able to talk under a hypothetical new standard like IPv6 or TCP-with-huge-packets. And there are a lot more than one device out there that would be cut off.

As I understand it, the big pipes have very large MTUs now, and the edge routers cut up the packets for further transport. That's probably the only way we can realistically go forward.

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[–] livingina@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you think this is the dot com bubble 2.0

[–] Two9A@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

If anything, we're into the "bust" part of the bubble: layoffs have been coming in waves all year, and are continuing. There were a whole bunch of posts over on Mastodon just a couple of weeks ago, at end of quarter, where people were laid off and looking for work.

[–] Saigonauticon@voltage.vn 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Has anyone implemented it in a physical device?

e.g. RFC3514 (an 'evil' flag you can set in malicious packets so a firewall knows to drop them) was actually used by a few people to see what would happen, with interesting results.

[–] Two9A@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As it turns out, I could find no physical implementations of HTCPCP or the tea-brewing extension. The original protocol is somewhat incomplete, which is probably the main issue; also, any modern appliance would probably talk its own protocol encoded in JSON or similar.

While researching for the talk, I did find Hacked-Together Coffeepot Control Protocol which was a UMaryland hackathon project in 2016. They won the prize for "most technologies used in their tech stack", which is ...something.

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[–] RealNooshie@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So what's better, tea or coffee?

[–] Two9A@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As it turns out, I drink black coffee nowadays.

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