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"God's will."
You're never going to be able to argue against that. No amount of explaining to them the atrocious cruelty of things like this trumps "God's will" for the anti-abortionists.
If you have a miscarriage, God' will. If you die and your baby lives, God's will. If you both die, God's will. If you would have lived if you had just had an abortion, YOU MURDERER!!!!
I think it’s god’s will when men aren’t able to get erections. It’s not natural to use viagara or cialis. Surely the same people so in tune with god’s will would agree with that one, right?
You would think.
They also seem to have no problem with things like stents or insulin pumps if they need them.
Not to mention eyeglasses.
I swear, the amount of times I've had someone complain about abortions or gay people being unnatural while at the same time wearing eyeglasses and living in a place filled to the brim with televisions, phones, computers, radios, electrical lights, internet, electric ovens..
I think it’s God’s Will(TM) that I’m about to push them in front of oncoming traffic.
I mean, you can't argue against it philosophically, but you can argue against it legally, which is all that matters.
At least, you used to...
That’s not an accurate take. There are some pro-lifers who are like that but most are in favour of exceptions when it’s to save the mother’s life, or the fetus has a fatal deformity.
They just don’t (want to) understand that the intentionally vague wording of anti-abortion laws makes it basically impossible for doctors to perform medically indicated abortions until it’s too late to save the patient.
If you claim to be “pro-life” the least you can do is advocate for clear definitions of the medical circumstances where abortive medical procedures are permitted.
Most? Maybe. The ones in legislatures? Not so much. Especially not in Idaho, where even the life of the mother doesn't matter.
But you're right that they don't want to understand. They know what these "life of the mother excepted" laws lead to in practice. Especially now. And yet they haven't changed their minds. They're just putting their hands over their ears and saying, "LA LA LA LA LA!"
Pretty soon this will be like a school shooting, hardly making the news and no one cares
As usual it will be thoughts and prayers and we just can't do anything about it.
I was literally going to say this.
Except I was going to phrase it:
This is going to become depressingly common, like school shootings. Soon it wont even make the news.
Huh, now that I think about it, it's been a while since we had one of those, not?
They didn't stop. You just stopped hearing about them because the media doesn't report on them en masse anymore.
This is abhorrent, and anyone who is ok with this is a terrible person.
People like Charlie Kirk spreading the opinion that abortion is murder, are to blame for this…
You mean the majority of voting Americans?
I'm sorry, you were saying...?
Florida man votes.
Huh?
Yes
The law’s impact on Bell’s experience highlights the inhumane consequences of abortion restrictions, which can lead to unnecessary suffering and even death.
The purpose of a system is what it does
As the deaths continue to add up black market abortions will be performed like pre Roe under shitty conditions that will also result in more patients bleeding out or getting infection and sepsis.
Don't worry, we'll throw them in jail. That will fix the problem. /s
Coming soon nationwide.
I wrote in my own name for president this time around. That way I'm sure to be 100% perfectly aligned with who I voted for. I'm sorry to hear about this but I just couldn't vote for Harris. /s
Harris and Biden are still currently in office. I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make here.
Let’s fast forward to the part where you tell me how they pass a law protecting abortion when the GOP owns the House.
Doesn’t matter now. The GOP has a trifecta and SCOTUS so prepare for a nationwide ban. Very cool that we’re about to lose what little protections we have at the state level too.
I don't see how writing in a name for President instead of voting for Harris has any real bearing on who is in this House of Representatives. I still don't get what point you're trying to make here, especially now that you seem to be jumping from one subject to another.
I'd like to see more statistics so I can argue the effect of this with more conservative people in my family. Unfortunately statistics like "deaths related to abortion laws saw 56% increase from 2018 to 2022" when Dobbs decisions was made in 2021 isn't exactly a strong argument to show that this decision is leading to deaths and not related to the effects of covid.
And before you argue with me, trust me you can't convince them that a fetus isn't a life. They will treat a fetus the same as a newborn baby. So unless I can prove to them that the law hurts mothers who want the baby I won't convince them the law is unjust, and abortion = murder.
I need to show increase in maternity deaths, unviable births, miscarriages leading to death, forced births leading to deaths. I need to show how this law actually hurts people who want children.
This isn't an argument about choice. The idea that a woman can terminate an unborn baby at will cannot be used as an argument here. There is no consensus that a "collection of cells isn't a baby". Remember that the same people who want to ban abortions also want women to have sex with a partner that is willing to have a child, unplanned pregnancies being part of that journey.
I just narrowly won over that contraception should be medically available.
Let's steelman the position and say 100% fetuses are complete people equal to any other person.
Then the issue becomes, does the government have the right to force you to use your body to support another person?
If I stab you in the kidney, and you'll die without a kidney transplant, can the government forcibly remove my kidney and give it to you? Obviously not.
Exact same thing with abortion. The whole argument of wether or not a fetus is a person is irrelevant. Nobody can be forced to use their body to support another person.
Here's the problem: they view a clump of cells as more of a human than they view a woman as a human 🙃
The problem is not the fact that fetuses are people or not, it's Napoleon's "some animals are more equal than others" from Animal Farm. They view the fetus as MORE important and deserving of more rights and care than the person carrying the fetus to term.
Yes, literally. I promise you, I have met a scary amount of conservatives who think women are only good for making babies and cleaning the house.
You should get all the stats you need in the upcoming years. Not sure it will make a difference though.
I mean...they would just be ok with them dying and suffering horribly.
No. No they're not. They are not evil. This is the problem with the entire debate on abortion. Not everyone that is pro life leans with destroying care for the living. It's not a black and white argument. Unfortunately the law is black and white which is leading to deaths. Deaths that they need to understand is the cause of the Supreme Court decision
I need help with this data too for similar reasons.
Bell said she does not blame her doctors at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta. Rather, she blames the law itself.
it is on the doctor's to either take the risk or quit
people have to step up for change to happen
I agree... However, I do understand the hesitance as well. Imagine spending untolds amount of money, and over a decade in school, only to end up with a 99 year prison sentence for preventing a woman with a miscarriage from dying.
Fuck this country.
"You save this lady's life or you don't have to find a new way to feed your kids" is not a position anyone should have to be put in.
It's easy to armchair say you'd go to prison for it. A doctor who goes to jail won't be practicing medicine again, kinda hard to do CME as an inmate...
It would be much easier to just move to another state without these restrictions.
This has already started happening and the result is that there are growing swaths of red states where there is little to no access to OB/Gyn care. Women in places like Idaho are on waiting lists for OB/Gyns so long that their first prenatal appointment can be as late as 20 weeks into the pregnancy. The waiting list problem doesn't even account for the fact that women are having to drive as much as 200 miles to get to appointments.
I am sure the Trump administration will get right on this.