this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2024
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My father told me he wanted to make USB flash drives of all the scanned and digitized family photos and other assorted letters and mementos. He planned to distribute them to all family members hoping that at least one set would survive. When I explained that they ought to be recipes to new media every N number of years or risk deteriorating or becoming unreadable (like a floppy disk when you have no floppy drive), he was genuinely shocked. He lost interest in the project that he’d thought was so bullet proof.

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[–] TechSquidTV@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (15 children)

Im really hoping, waiting, for a good dense long-term storage medium. It doesn't have to be fast, but large, cheap, and durable. I want a way to backup my plex library, or even, daily backups of documents and project files, and I don't want to think about them ever again.

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

It does has to be fast enough that you can transfer the files to a different disk within your lifetime.

[–] SidewaysHighways@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

It certainly would make planning the dang home lab easier. Im in a small place! I don't have room for all the stuff i wanna play with!

[–] BluesF@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Punch cards? Stored correctly there's no reason they couldn't last many human lifetimes. But... Yeah it'll take a while to encode everything.

I would have thought that with modern technology we could come up with something like punch cards but more space/time efficient. Physical storage of data - only one write cycle of course, but extremely durable. Even just the same system as punch cards but using tiny, tiny holes very close together on a roll of paper. Could be punched or read by a machine at high speed (compared to a regular punch card, presumably still Ber slow compared to flash media).

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago

Paper doesn't last centuries. Anyway, punched cards don't have a storage density that's adequate for modern data volumes. You need something that'll durably store nanometre-sized marks.

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Tape is cheap and durable if you store it properly. Except the tape drive is expensive af.

Microsoft is working on glass storage. A glass plate can last 10,000 years according to Microsoft. Hopefully that tech will get miniaturized and available to consumers within our lifetimes.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

As a former audio engineer in the days where we still used it- tape can rot.

[–] gwen@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

im not an audio engineer, but people didnt know this????

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

It seemed like the person I was talking to didn't. The implication was that tape was viable as long-term storage. It isn't. I've seen tapes rot after a year. DATs were especially prone to that, but even things like 2" multitrack audio tape can go bad that quickly.

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[–] Shimitar@feddit.it 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

There is no "write and forget" solution. There never has been.

Do you think we have ORIGINALS or Greek or roman written texts? No, we have only those that have been copied over and over in the course of the centuries. Historians knows too well. And 90% of anything ever written by humans in all history has been lost, all that was written on more durable media than ours.

The future will hold only those memories of us that our descendants will take the time to copy over and over. Nothing that we will do today to preserve our media will last 1000 years in any case.

(Will we as a specie survive 1000 more years?)

Still, it our duty to preserve for the future as much as we can. If today's historians are any guide, the most important bits will be those less valuable today: the ones nobody will care to actually preserve.

Citing Alessandro Barbero, a top notch Italian current historian, he would kill no know what a common passant had for breakfast in the tenth century. We know nothing about that, while we know a tiny little more about kings.

[–] Unbecredible@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Sad little human. I have written my treatises into the warp and weft of reality itself. I have twisted my curiosity into the folds of your DNA and stamped my waxing madness into the ragged edges of the telomeres that mark your days as numbered. I have made of the stars a celestial QR code that burns across the skies of every planet, that burns across the eyes of every ape who stares into the night and asks "why?". I announced The Work with a bang of gas and light and awe and set time itself into motion so my scripture could expand eternally into the infinite, benighted expanse.

[–] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Is this from something?

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago

Do you think we have ORIGINALS or Greek or roman written texts?

In some cases we do. For example, the documents at Pompeii, those at Qumran, and other rare instances where documents have been preserved from the time they're written. It's also true that we have far more copies than originals, and that we've lost most of the works of many ancient authors.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

But we do have originals of many other texts. Like vast, vast amounts of cuneiform texts because they were usually pressed into a clay tablet and then baked.

All but four Mayan paper codices were burned, but the Mayans loved carving their stories into rocks and making those rocks part of their cities' architecture, so we still have a lot of their textual information. Same with the Egyptians- they wrote a lot on papyrus, and most of that is lost, but they also carved and painted all over tombs.

The secret is not to keep copying the texts. That introduces errors and those errors can compound. The secret is to preserve the texts in a medium which will only degrade over exceptionally long periods of time (compared to a human life, anyway).

If you had a device which could carve stored data into stone and make it retrievable again, you could potentially preserve that data for thousands of years.

[–] endofline@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There is: mdiscs. Allegedly 1000 years durability even in Blu-ray format. Should be good enough for most important things. The best tapes AFAIK 30- 100 years

[–] curry@programming.dev 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Problem is how to read the disk, especially after generations. Will they retain the knowledge to build and operate a device for this?

[–] endofline@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's always problem for any type of media. Including the tape which keep changing generations and only few recent are supported for reading. I still have blue ray reader / writer though

[–] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

It's even the case for physical media, like paper and carved stone, because over a long enough time people forget the language that they were written in. Historians had to teach themselves how to read ancient egyptian, and off the top i think a lot of Maya inscriptions are still a mystery.

[–] Aqarius@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Simple, we wrrie down the information on how to read the discs!

[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I wish there was a cheap and millennia-long lasting microfilm you could transfer books to. A projector is a pretty simple device to operate. Hmm that reminds me of "Last Words (2020)".

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[–] RVGamer06@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago

Citing Alessandro Barbero

Updoot just for this

[–] nyan@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Do you think we have ORIGINALS or Greek or roman written texts?

We do have originals of some much older texts, though (cuneiform on clay that was fired after impression seems to be a pretty good archival medium, overall). We'd probably have a lot more original Greek and Roman documents if they hadn't been destroyed in wars and other disasters, or recycled for various purposes. There's a big survival rate difference between documents that receive basic care throughout their lives—no rough handling handling, minimal direct sunlight exposure, and some degree of temperature and humidity control in the storage area—and those left to fend for themselves. That's why old documents in surprisingly good condition sometimes turn up in caves, which tend to have constant temperature and humidity levels.

(But, yeah, current electronic media doesn't have much chance, with select optical disk media stored under carefully chosen conditions offering the best chance for your files being retrievable decades later, if you can find a drive to read them on.)

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[–] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

This is where "piracy" is actually the industry's saving grace. Decades or centuries later, will record labels exist and be well-managed (and flush with cash) enough to preserve archival copies of their artists catalogs? Probably not.

Will obscure weirdos exist all around the world on Usenet, IRC, or seeding torrents? Possibly.

[–] curry@programming.dev 0 points 2 months ago

Many films and tv programs survive only thanks to a total stranger keeping their own copy. For a long term survival of any media it has to be copied and distributed far and wide.

[–] frostwhitewolf@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

What is really being discussed here is archiving of master recordings and session files. The publically avaliable releases themselves aren't really in jeopardy. Orthough piracy probably does provide an extra layer of security to more obscure releases.

[–] tunetardis@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I thought I read somewhere that when they were making one of the Toy Story movies, there was some catastrophic data loss that nearly tanked the whole production. But then one of the animators came back from maternity and said wait, I think I have most of it synced to my home server? And the next thing you know, John Lasseter himself is barrelling down the highway to her place and it turned out yeah, she did have it.

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[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

I got four HDDs, some are almost 10 years old. They work great but I know that won't be for forever.

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