this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2024
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Sharing because I found this very interesting.

The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective has a DIY design for a home lab you can set up to reproduce expensive medication for dirt cheap, producing medication like that used to cure Hepatitis C, along with software they developed that can be used to create chemical compounds out of common household materials.

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[–] Quereller@lemmy.one 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Man, I would be so worried about impurities and side reactions. A good example is the recalls of drugs because of nitrosamine contamination. If stuff like this already happens to the experts.

And what is with the whole galenics side? How to make sure the absorption is about right...

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[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

This is extremely dangerous and also something I feel must be considered a natural and obvious extension of a right I believe to be fundamental: bodily autonomy.

Would I do this? Probably not, maybe for some medicines, that are easily made administrable from bulk chemicals but likely not. But behind all rights stands bodily autonomy. It is your flesh and not mine. If we don’t want people doing this themselves the lever we should use is easing access to expert made medicines. Desperate people do stupid things.

Also this is cyberpunk as hell and aesthetically I’m so here for it

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

This is extremely dangerous and also something I feel must be considered a natural and obvious extension of a right I believe to be fundamental: bodily autonomy.

There is a significant distinction between the right to bodily autonomy and the right to distribute quack medicine. And that's sort of the rub. As soon as you start marketing your product to third parties under false pretexts, we're not longer talking about an individual's right to self. And we get into an even more tangled web when we start talking about health care for children or the elderly, who lack the mental acuity to make informed choices.

Also this is cyberpunk as hell and aesthetically I’m so here for it

Everyone wants to get the military grade Sandevistan drive. Nobody thinks they're going to succumb to cyberpsychosis.

[–] bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 months ago

Compounding pharmacies should not be subjected to patents. Then the costs are all local instead of tithes to the corporate clergy.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I think an off the shelf microlab that can reliably synthesize a particular medicine is something that's commercially viable, which is probably a safe middle ground here and sort of what they're proof of concepting.

Rather than putting together a DIY lab like this, a pre-made kit that makes one medication would easily make a ton of meds available. Not just here but all around the world.

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[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago

I agree with the idea of bodily autonomy. Above all, someone should have the right to do, or not do, whatever they want with their own person.

Whether that is to listen to doctors advice, buy pharmaceuticals and self-administer as prescribed, or even end your own life, and everything in between.

Quick disclaimer, suicide should still be evaluated by a psychiatric professional, and simply being suicidal shouldn't necessarily mean that nobody can, or should stop you from committing that act. I'm mostly referring to medically assisted self termination, after the appropriate safeguards, checks, and balances have been cleared. Simply wanting to off yourself without being cleared as having sound mind should be something we, as a society, should address carefully, with the assistance of mental health professionals.

With all that being said: I probably would DIY some pharmaceuticals. Anything that's an opiate or other restricted substance, definitely not. But if I can buy the ingredients without needing a special permit or license, I definitely would.

[–] Cyberflunk@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Hope John Green is aware of this. He's fighting tuberculosis globally!

[–] MerchantsOfMisery@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Four Thieves are legit. Controversial but they're confronting a lot of uncomfortable truths that need to be addressed .

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[–] flicker@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I believe every American knows someone whose life is made substantially worse because of a lack of access to healthcare.

I want to set this up and learn to use it. I want to keep it and maintain it and wait. Because I'll inevitably hear from someone that they can't afford their life-saving medication.

[–] flicker@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Oh, also I have an exceedingly rare hereditary disease, so it feels like a certainty I'll need it for myself someday.

[–] ccdfa@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I know someone whose life is made substantially worse because they have a lack of access to healthcare. They live in Europe and can't get access to the specialized medicine that they need in the timeframe that they need it in. I'm not saying that socialized medicine is bad—I'm actually all for it—but it needs to be implemented well foe it to actually work. This is just my anecdotal evidence to say that just because everyone has access doesn't automatically mean it's adequate access.

[–] flicker@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I can't really comment on the European experience though, so I said American, which I am, and which I am qualified to talk about.

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[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Haha that name is fantastic! It’s a riff on the best selling vinegar that you get at Costco and similar places called “Four Monks” vinegar.

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[–] EarthShipTechIntern@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago

Hail Four Thieves Vinegar Collective!

More DIY, right to repair, open source living.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, no.

Your body isn't a simple laptop where you plug out some broken componi, replace that component, and you're done. There is a reason why even "simple" nurses go through years of training before being able to call themselves nurses.

If it comes to your body, shits complicated, yo!

Everyone should, must have the right to good quality healthcare, but it can't be from yourself, by yourself. You need a doctor!

Even those trans humanist types that put magnets and such in their bodies are really on the edge with what will and won't kill you. Add DIY CRISPR sets, which is just the worst thing I've ever heard, and you have arecipe for disaster.

[–] Scolding7300@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

There's a difference between injecting unknown crispr mutations and replicating known chemical compounds. I would guess the main danger here is the impurity

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