Questions are growing? Haven’t they been out already for fucking years??
this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2024
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Tesla keeps promising things are fixed in the next update, then the next update, and so on. I don't think Tealas have the proper sensors to avoid collisions and their algorithms don't think like an attentive driver does.
Everybody knows that tesla sacrificed lidar sensors with cameras because it was cheaper. Yes, lidar can do it easily
It's not seeing that's the problem. It's what to do with the information about what you see.
It's both. Imagine being half blind flying a jet and you don't understand what the instruments do.
That's a typical Tesla engineer these days. (He's fired the whole team at least twice now. The guys that are left are the most inept I desperately need a job engineers out there).
Yes growing. They were birthed years ago, and Elon has done his best to nurture them so they grow big and strong
I've been questioning it since the day Mushk said "We don't need fancy pants LiDAR, regular cameras are all you need!"
As if a safety critical system shouldn't have backups or alternative sensors for verifying shit
Also things like adverse weather conditions exist, and I think sometimes the sun goes out.
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The company has cautioned that cars equipped with the system cannot actually drive themselves and that motorists must be ready at all times to intervene if necessary.
This describes a level 2 system...
And in less than two months, the company is scheduled to unveil a vehicle built expressly to be a robotaxi.
...but this would require a level 4 system.
“It’s not even close, and it’s not going to be next year,” said Michael Brooks, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety.
And so I tend to agree, fully.
This will be the reason Tesla falls behind the rest of the automotive industry, wasting money on vanity projects instead of developing better vehicles.
The 3, Y, and the huge number of Chinese EVs being sold around the world have shown there is a huge market for affordable, practical electric vehicles, and what are they developing? A vehicle that won't be able to fulfill it's intended role for a decade almost everywhere.
When I see EVs (southern Netherlands) they are mostly model S or non-Teslas from mostly VW. Autonomous vehicles aren't even allowed here AFAIK.
Edit: I am agreeing with you, for clarity's sake.
My understanding is that the only places in the world where self-driving vehicles are actually legal is the UK and weirdly Tehran or something very odd like that.
But that's all just a technicality, most jurisdictions say you can't have them because we haven't verified their safety. The UK says you can have them but only in very limited testing scenarios (limited speed, limited to certain roads in a mapped area). But they both effectively amount to the same thing.
I think the focus on AI is what will be the problem. Sure, AI is cool, and sure you need advances for self-driving, but you’re a car manufacturer and can’t neglect car manufacturing
Thing is, I quite like the idea of a self driving car. I do whitewater kayaking, and I'd love to be able to do a trip and have my car meet me at the end.
It's becoming increasingly obvious this isn't happening any time soon though, and developing a vehicle that is totally reliant on the technology doesn't seem like a smart idea.
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Aren't level 4 systems still illegal in the US anyway? I remember Volkswagen holding off on a minibus due to this limitation when they managed to create a working proof of concept 8ish years ago
My understanding is that they're not illegal in so much as they would have to be proven to actually work. Since no one's ever been able to do this to the satisfaction of the regulators effectively self-driving cars are illegal.
We have Tesla's on the road anyway, so I don't quite understand how that works.
They are only effectively illegal right up until they're not. If a company came up with a genuinely self-driving vehicle my understanding is that it would be authorized but they would have to actually demonstrate it, and that's possibly more than the corporations really want to take on at the moment.
Presumably being second to market is the more cost-effective option so everyone's holding off until someone does it first.
We have Tesla’s on the road anyway, so I don’t quite understand how that works.
The feature marketed as “Full Self-Drivinng” is qualified as a beta feature undergoing test and that it requires a human to be in control at all times. It also makes at least some effort to ensure a human actually is paying attention.
You could certainly quibble that maybe it’s not obvious to all, but it is there.
Also I believe the human sensing was much easier to trick until last fall. But if you have to go out of your way to trick it, how can you claim you didn’t know it wanted a human in control?
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Aren’t level 4 systems still illegal in the US anyway?
How can something that does not exist be illegal?
By creating regulations that apply to the creation of those things? Level 1 AVs exist and as such regulations exist for AVs. These regulations apply to level 4 AVs despite being mostly theoretical.
The other commenter in this thread basically already answered this as well by talking about how manufacturers need to prove the safety of it before it can be green it.
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It's not safe
Humans are not safe. 40k of them get killed in vehicle accidents every year in the US alone. Self driving doesn't need to be flawless. It only needs to be safer. If perfection is the only thing we'll settle for then that'll cost us hundreds of thousands, if not millions of more lives untill we get there.
If we replaced every vehicle on US roads with self driving cars that were twice as safe of an driver as average human is, there would still be 50 deaths every single day. That's 50 daily news articles on Lemmy about how "not safe" self driving cars are despite them saving additional 20k lives every year.
There is no independently verified data that shows Tesla self driving is actually better than humans.
I never claimed it is.
Yes you did: https://lemmy.ml/post/19661763/13303063
You should stop lying.
That was posted after replying to you and I'm making an entirely different claim there. Half as good as a human driver =/= twice as good as human. It's also just my opinion, not a factual statement, only what I believe to be true.
Not a single lie was told.
Let us know when it even gets to half as good as a human.
About a year ago probably. Humans suck at driving so that's a low bar to reach.
Citation desired.
It's not a fact, but my opinion which I cannot prove any more than you can disprove.
but guyz musko said tesla is an ai company now
/s
Honestly there's so much shit about Tesla's software on the Internet. I own a model y with "FSD" and I can confidently say that the current version (12.5.3) is a 90% solution. Is it perfect? No. Can it do everything? No. Can it drive me to work and back, to the grocery store, and whatever else I need without me intervening? Yes it can, and has no issues 90% of the time. Obviously for it to be considered level 5 or whatever it needs to work 99.999% of the time, but it's good enough right now for me to not only use it regularly, but to also enjoy using it.
It's an awesome piece of software and it still blows my mind to watch my car drive me around. We are living in the future.
Same. I love my FSD and I've watched it go from 80% a few years ago to around 95% now.
I recently rode in a Tesla on FSD for over 26 hours of freeway travel. It was flawless the entire time.
On city streets? 90% was about right. It once took too sharp of a turn at a double right turn and spooked the driver next to us (although it didn't cross into their lane, just got close), and another time decided to only change lanes halfway into the left turn lane.
I agree that it needs to be near 100% on city streets before it's ready for launch because that 10% difference is HUGE when it comes to safety. If their "level 5" taxi isn't using some vastly improved software, it needs to be kept off the street.
To every even slightly educated person on the matter it's immediately obvious that the majority of people commenting on these threads don't have up-to-date information about how far FSD has come and their opinions are based on how bad it used to be and / or how bad they wish it was.
Everyone is free to go to YouTube and watch videos of people intentionally pushing the limits of this system. Like you said; it's not flawless, but damn it's good.
Is the self driving in the room with us right now?
Shhhh! I accidentally opened this thread while my phone was connected and EVERYTHING IS FINE RECALCULATING ROUTE.
At least they have it. It's incredible to see videos of the FSD on highways, and Waymo robot taxis in the USA.
I wish we had technology in Europe.
I wish we had technology in Europe.
European cars are better. They just leave away the bragging.
YouTube videos of FSD make it seem way better than it used to be (if they're real) and it's surprising that no one was paying attention until now.
There was an story a while back where it was discovered that Tesla focuses their efforts on the routes taken by creators (and other influencial people), to intentionally make self driving look better than it is.
I suppose the ones where people die are never uploadet.
But other than that, feel free to judge on anecdotal data.
I have it and it is legitimately a great driver aid. But you need to understand it's limitations to use it safely. It's a really awkward place to live in, because I get an immense amount of value out of it, but I would not just throw my mother in the car and trust her to use it safely.
I'm considering buying one but lately I've been thinking about maybe getting a Mustang because the BlueCruise seems more honest. However, Ford doesn't seem super committed to electric and it's all hard to justify when my Honda just won't die.
Blue Cruise is legit as well though significantly more limited than FSD, and Ford is unlikely to push new updates the way Tesla does.
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Tesla’s biggest issue is Musk.
Tesla held a commanding lead over the other automakers in the self-driving segment a few years ago. Now they’ve all mostly caught up thanks to Musk’s unhinged firings. Tesla lost some of its best talent for no other reason than not wanting to work for an egomaniacal billionaire nut job.
Tesla needs to fire Musk before he runs it into the ground just like he’s done to Twitter.
They're only ahead of everyone else because they were prepared to release a product that was untested and quite possibly unsafe, whereas the other car manufacturers realized that would be detrimental to their business, both in terms of reputation, and the inevitable lawsuits. Tesla just does whatever though.
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Yes to fuck musk, but also...
"Commanding lead" equals other manufacturers also didn't have a functioning feature (and still don't now).
Because they weren't willing to open themselves up to the lawsuits for rushing a half baked autonomous driving function. Their systems likely work just as well as Tesla's, which is why they wont advertise it as full self driving because it kills people.
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Tesla's Full Self Driving does not exist. If it did, it would be used in the ridiculous loop they built in Vegas which is literally like 10% of the complexity of driving in a real road... yet it is not even good enough to be piloted there.
I don't even want to turn on the speed limiter because I'm getting random fantom breaking, it's really infuriating.
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