This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Really? Nobody at TSMC thought to google “biggest mistake companies make when opening US plants”? Because this has all happened before
Because this has all happened before
Humans generally don't consider this.
Specifically East Asian managers, I suppose, think they are the ones who'll finally do it right and make the serfs grow rice by the schedule and without complaints, and those previous attempts were done by some failures and discards who don't know how to hammer down nails that go up and so on.
(Not racist, just joking)
So what happens to Taiwanese manufacturing when their population collapses due to a super low birthrate. They right behind South Korea in lowest TFR.
Reminds me of the Netflix show “American Factory” about a Chinese factory opening in the US.
Quite a fascinating clash of cultures.
While TSMC is considered by many in Taiwan as the pinnacle of engineering jobs, other companies in Arizona are competing for that labor pool. Intel, in particular, is expanding its Arizona chip factory.
Ya, so about Intel.....
When a company opens a facility in another country, why don't they just higher local people to be the managers?
Because they don't know or trust them
Same thing happened when Kia entered Europe. Unusually low pay combined with mandatory morning employee marching and exercising in the factory, combined with threats of physical punishment for "under performing" workers.
threats of physical punishment
This can bring people to jail in Germany.
I'm reminded of the time Walmart tried to enter Germany with their work culture. But in their case it wasn't just that the Germans didn't like it. It was illegal. And the German customers were weirded out by Walmart employees smiling and being so cheerful all the time.
But in their case it wasn’t just that the Germans didn’t like it. It was illegal.
I want to learn more?...
By law: 8 hours as the rule, never more than 10 hours for exceptions.
By contract, they can go a little above the 8 hours.
If they go above the 10, it can cost the company a lot even for a single case.
Don't know if it's in the video, but as far as I remember it was about how working hours were calculated and about worker surveillance. And Walmart trying to control worker's private lifes by forbidding sexual relationships between workers.
Apple still tries to have the cherry up-beat customer services department in the UK and it doesn't work. It's a Saturday, no one wants to be doing this call, don't pretend otherwise it's weird.
I hope they can be held accountable for mistreating those 'transplants" (what an ugly word!) too. But I guess that would be easier here in EU than in USA.
extremely rigorous working conditions, including 12-hour work days that extend into the weekends and calling employees into work in the middle of the night for emergencies. TSMC managers in Taiwan are also known to use harsh treatment and threaten workers with being fired for relatively minor failures.
Funny. The same issues that Tesla is experiencing in Germany.
Yeah.. I personally was surprised there are developed nations with a more toxic corpo culture than the US. But apparently the Asian powerhouses are all built on corporate servitude.
You'd be surprised to hear about Japanese & Korean work culture.
Yeah.. korea, Japan, Taiwan, China
W for workers rights, L for US fab production
perceived abuses
Way to be passive aggressive, haha. Next they'll be apologising "we're sorry you feel that way" :P
I remember watching a documentary a few years ago where this exact situation happened. Chinese company buys American company, tries to establish their work culture and it just doesn't work.
It’s the same the world over. I’ve worked for years for a western company which has got a large part of their business in Asia and China.
You try taking our “western ways” of leadership to China and see how well it fares; what I would consider “leaving space for a leader to operate and feel accountable” is seen as “my leader has no fucking clue what he is doing; he never tells me what he wants me to do”.
Culture eats everything for breakfast. As a western leader in China you have to act like a controlling maniac (in my cultural frame) to be seen as an effective leader in China.
And it goes both ways. My brother reports to a Chinese manager transplanted to the west and she “desperately wants to micromanage everything” according to the western team.
We are all trying our best.
Happy workers are hard workers, treat them like shit and they'll walk right out the door.
Correct! Well unless, they're starving and need to feed their families.
Aren't the machines TSMC uses made in the Netherlands? They're the only ones who can get down to that size, and they do it working 36 hours a week...
My brother worked for such a Dutch company (ASM) and often got sent overseas to supervise the setting up of the production lines with these machines.
He mentioned when he'd get sent to Asia, the workers would make sure to get it done over a weekend, while implementing the same setup would take 2 to 3 weeks in the US. In part that was due to the working conditions mentioned, but also simple lack of planning in case of the latter (things would grind down to a haalt because certain changes would need to be made, and the person responsible for the decision wouldn't respond for hours or days, etc).
Side note: while 36 hour work weeks are common in the Netherlands, 40 hours is still the norm in my experience.
Funny thing is, TSMC in Taiwan is considered a premium employer. It offers much better pay and parks than other companies.
It can't be just that. The cultural difference is real in the sense that there is in Asia in general more obedience or reverence or discipline or selflessness or whatever you call it, that you simply don't find at scale in western civilisations. Whether it's good or bad I don't judge
It doesn’t mean that the US factory is any less capable. What needs reworking is meeting the expectation and planning for contingencies. There should be ongoing shifts, specialized teams, rotation, mitigation, etc. I think our output is comparable but it’s done more safely and sustainable over a longer time VS grinding workers to dust and replacing them.
It's not about capabilities, it's about cost.
If you can exploit your workers, pay shit wages for long hours, you'll get a cheaper product. You can get the same output by applying higher standards, but that would mean hiring more people.
Important to note that this is Taiwanese culture, not Chinese; Taiwan is much more exacting in the finished product and generally much more attentive to human rights in terms of work culture, so it is not a direct correlation to what happened in the American Factory doc.
Which brings us to what I believe is the more salient point:
TSMC is very Christian and at least their top management likens their research, discoveries and manufacturing progress to faith-based divine revelation.
The symptoms of worker's rights abuse may not be simple disregard for labor rights so much as continued religious fervor.
https://www.wired.com/story/i-saw-the-face-of-god-in-a-tsmc-factory/
Their R&D is scientific, but their motivation, timelines and aheer effort is strongly faith-based, in the mindset that God has allowed them to get this far and will allow them to continue to progress no matter what technological hurdles appear.
Either way, labor rights have to be respected, but I wanted to point out that Taiwan and China are entirely separate countries with different work cultures and there's another pretty important reason why outside workers might be put off by the zealotry with which tsmc focuses on developing cutting edge chip manufacturing.
u wot
It's not really true.
It stems from a couple of their chairmen being Christian and saying "I see god in nature" (something that I imagine all Christians do).
The above user then extrapolated that Taiwan is Christian (they're actually 3.9% Christian lol), that TSMC hires people based on religion, and that the reason TSMC is struggling with their US plant is because Taiwan is too Christian in culture for a 67% Christian country, as opposed to, oh I dunno, the discrepancy in working conditions between the US and Taiwan.
I don't understand the question
Taiwan is less than 4% Christian. I doubt workers in TSMC are significantly different.
6%, and TSMC specifically hires and promotes devout Christians for leadership positions and they say for all positions that Christian belief is important.
It's in the attached article.
TSMC chairman Mark Liu says that "Every scientist must beleieve in God" and about TSMC's work, "God means nature. We are describing the face of nature at TSMC".
3.9%
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Taiwan
Buddhism is at 35.1%, Taoism at 33%, and atheism at 18.7%.
Needless to say, Christianity is not "Taiwanese culture". They're about as Christian as Germany is Islamic (3.7%).
This article says nothing other than that some people in high up positions at TSMC are Christian. It doesn't say anything about pushing Christianity onto workers.
And yeah of course Christians say Christianity is important and that they see god in nature. They're Christians.
Just imagine what they would face in Europe, where workers even have rights!
And that’s why they won’t set up a fab in Europe, the cost of manufacturing would simply be too high.
Teaching the Asian colleagues the fine art of blocking factories and burning tires.
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
These shiti corps are dealing with demographic shift in US labour force coupled with severe disillusionment since comp barely justifies showing half the time.
Why why would break a sweat to make another man rich lol
People are taking notice.
