this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
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[–] Toes@ani.social 0 points 4 months ago

Oh wow, that needs to be off by default like yesterday. 💀

[–] swayevenly@lemm.ee 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Anyone see the option to turn it off on Android phones?

[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 0 points 4 months ago

IMO it's the option in Data collection called Marketing data. It doesn't say it's PPA outright, but it sounds like the same sort of thing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] reversebananimals@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

It's a desktop only feature, it hasn't been built into mobile I believe

[–] c0smokram3r@midwest.social 0 points 4 months ago (10 children)

WTH, Mozilla 🤦🏼‍♀️

Also, fuck you, dude:

One Mozilla developer claimed that explaining PPA would be too challenging, so they had to opt users in by default.

[–] adarza@lemmy.ca 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

i read that as more like "nobody would opt in if it was opt-in".

[–] kbal@fedia.io 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

One Mozilla developer claimed that explaining PPA would be too challenging

It's not that difficult to explain. "When you visit the website of a participating advertiser whose ads you've seen, do you want us to tell them that someone saw their ads and visited their site, without telling them it was you? Y/N"

But if they asked such a question almost all of the small fraction of users who bother to read the whole sentence would still see no good reason to want to participate. Coming up with one is that hard part. It requires some pretty fancy rationalizations. Firefox keeping track of which ads I've seen? No, thanks.

If there was an option to make sure that advertisers whose ads I've blocked know that they got blocked, I might go for that.

The writer apparently thinks that the previous Mozilla misstep into advertising land was the Mr. Robot thing six years ago, which seems to confirm my impression that this one is getting a bigger reaction than their other recent moves in this direction. We'll see if the rest of the tech press picks it up. Maybe one day when the cumulative loss of users shows up more clearly in the telemetry they'll reconsider.

[–] Paradox@lemdro.id 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Let's not forget when they shipped a full page ad for a Disney movie into a browser update

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[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think explaining a system like PPA would be a difficult task.

IMO that just means they barely understand it themselves. Anyone that understands something with an amount of proficiency can explain it to child and it'll make sense, given they don't use technical nomenclature.

[–] solrize@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

The difficulty is in spinning it to sound non invasive. And of course takes a level of self corruption to even want to do that, since PPA is invasive and you have to delude yourself into thinking otherwise.

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

"You're too dumb to understand so we make decisions for you"

Fuck that condescending prick with a pineapple.

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[–] ptz@dubvee.org 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

So is it safe to assume that alternate builds of Firefox (Pale Moon et al) will be probably removing that "feature" ?

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 0 points 4 months ago

Probably in your best interest to read their release notes

[–] ItsComplicated@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Mozilla has added special software co-authored by Meta and built for the advertising industry

No thanks, I’ll pass

[–] hotpot8toe@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

Meta bad!!! Wait until you realise that React is built by Meta. Are you gonna stop using websites that is built on React?

[–] queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Programming languages isn't adware made by a company that has horrible track records for respecting privacy. If you love Facebook so much, stay there and take your sealioning with you.

[–] hotpot8toe@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Super welcoming community here. Disagree with them they immediately want you out. Anyways, React is not a programming language, it's a framework built on Javascript. My point was that hating on anything Meta built is stupid because they can build ok things

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[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This is not sealioning lmao

You're falling into the trap where anyone who disagrees with you has some sort of ulterior motive or grand scheme. I don't need to remind you why that is not a good thing.

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[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (6 children)

I wish I could. Every time I hear about a React app, it’s some godforsaken ad choked nightmare of a “web 2.0” site that just makes the internet painful to use. I understand it may be possible to write a performant and usable GUI with it, but you never hear of such things

[–] hotpot8toe@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I mean it might not be the most performant. But I've build with React and it made it easier to build projects quickly. Regardless, my point wasn't about React and if it's good or bad. My point was that Meta can build a framework that's not about collecting data. Sometimes they have other motives.

Here I think the reason they are co-authoring this is to try to paralyze Google's hold on personalized ads and user data. And probably reduce scrutiny of their data collecting actions in the sense that their new data collecting will be based on PPA if it goes mainstream.

[–] bamboo@lemm.ee 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Web 2.0 was the mid-2000s idea that every website and service would be accessible via an http api and that it would allow easy integration. It was ads that killed Web 2.0, as users accessing a site via its api rather than its ad-filled website wouldn’t see any of those ads.

[–] Scrollone@feddit.it 0 points 4 months ago

God I miss Web 2.0. The Fediverse is trying to bring that concept back, luckily.

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[–] hummingbird@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

Sad to see Mozilla being managed into the ground, betraying their principles and selling their users.

[–] PassingThrough@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Is there a list anywhere of this and other settings and features that could/should certainly be changed to better Firefox privacy?

Other than that I’m not sure I’m really going to jump ship. I think I’m getting too old for the “clunkiness” that comes with trying to use third party/self hosted alternatives to replace features that ultimately break the privacy angle, or to add them to barebones privacy focused browsers. Containers and profile/bookmark syncing, for example. But if there’s a list of switches I can flip to turn off the most egregious things, that would be good for today.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 0 points 4 months ago

Just use LibreWolf; I’m not up to speed on this stuff but I more or less believe the hype that it will protect my privacy simply by taking Firefox and adding an ad blocker for me and disabling all the shit for me

[–] antler@feddit.rocks 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

A custom user.js might be a good base to work off of. For example https://github.com/yokoffing/Betterfox

But jumping ship might be your best bet. Forks like Librewolf are good or otherwise a privacy respecting Chromium browser can work well too.

[–] 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 0 points 4 months ago (4 children)

otherwise a privacy respecting Chromium browser

With manifest v3 and this thing active on chromium browsers, privacy respecting chromium may not exist.

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[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Look, everything is going to disappoint us. Everything runs off a profit motive, and it turns out profit is immoral.

[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

"The worst thing that can happen to your people is for them to fall into the hands of a hero"

  • Dr Pardot Kines
[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 0 points 4 months ago

New saying:

Kill all your heroes.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 0 points 4 months ago

From the article, quoting a Firefox dev explaining the decision:

@McCovican @jonny @mathew @RenewedRebecca Opt-in is only meaningful if users can make an informed decision. I think explaining a system like PPA would be a difficult task. And most users complain a lot about these types of interruption.

In my opinion an easily discoverable opt-out option + blog posts and such were the right decision.

puts on They Live glasses

@McCovican @jonny @mathew @RenewedRebecca If we had made it opt in, then not a single human being on the planet would have enabled it, and we didn’t want that

[–] uzay@infosec.pub 0 points 4 months ago

Default Firefox is becoming more and more unusable. I hope distros will start switching to something like Librewolf as the default browser in the future or heavily (and visibly) change the default Firefox config themselves.

[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 0 points 4 months ago

It's all on Ladybird now.

[–] PenisWenisGenius@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Well shit. Firefox is still better because it doesn't have the backdoor Google uses to catch and then block people using adblock on YouTube. For now.

[–] kersplomp@programming.dev 0 points 4 months ago (12 children)

Honest question, why does the fediverse like firefox so much? This is not a common opinion to have on the internet, but everyone here and on mastodon seems to have it.

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[–] chip@feddit.rocks 0 points 4 months ago

I had my doubts reading that Ladybird browser announcement, but more and more I'm thinking that Mozilla is desperately chasing the gravy train that has long departed with their sugar daddy (google) laughing all the way to the horizon.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 0 points 4 months ago

Mozilla pays its CEOs millions and millions of dollars. They exist to get funding from Chrome to look like there is competition in the industry.

[–] fin@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 months ago

Should I now ditch Firefox for Librewolf?

[–] hotpot8toe@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

I mean people freaking out about this don't actually understand what's happening and why Mozilla is doing it. Mozilla is trying to build a new privacy-based advertising. The feature needs to be opt-in by default in order to have a chance to become mainstream. Forget about the technical details and whether the user understands what it is. Most people don't change default settings. So they can never get websites to try this better technology if their own users aren't adopting it.

I also hate the attitude of this community they think Firefox is built for them(ultra tech savy, extremely privacy concious) when 99% of their users are not these things. If you want ultra privacy, go use Libreawolf or whatever. Those solutions are for that type of person. Firefox and Mozilla builds for the average person, which is why they correctly say that the user won't understand the feature. (Anyone says otherwise is in a tech bubble and haven't seen normal people interacting with their computers).

[–] fin@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 months ago (5 children)

99% of their users are not these things

I don't think so. People using Firefox are freaking evangelists trying to spread privacy. And if Firefox should lose those people, it will truly be the end

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[–] Lodra@programming.dev 0 points 4 months ago (14 children)

So I read a bit of Mozilla’s documentation about this feature. It sounds like they’re trying to replace the current practices with something safer. Honestly, my first thought is that this is a good thing for two reasons.

  • It’s an attempt to replace cross site tracking methods, which are terrible
  • Those of us that fight against ads, talking, etc. can simple use typical methods to block the api. Methods that were already using (I think)

If both of these are true, then it could be a net positive for the world. Please tell me if I’m wrong!

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[–] Zwiebel@feddit.org 0 points 4 months ago

Explaination from the article:

The way it works is that individual browsers report their behavior to a data aggregation server (operated by Mozilla), then that server reports the aggregated data to an advertiser's server. The "advertising network" only receives aggregated data with differential privacy, but the aggregation server still knows the behavior of individual browsers!

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