this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
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I realize this is a Linux community, but I was wondering why you still hate Windows. I mean, I love Linux, but I will not argue that it's more convenient to the average person in most use cases to use Windows, I recently had to switch back to Windows and I realized how convenient it all was and how I was missing so many things because of my love for Linux. But at this point, Linux is a part of my personality and my self-image and I will not leave it, but I gotta be honest, it's pretty convenient being on Windows. So, why have you guys chosen to still stay on Linux? Some reasons I can appreciate include

  1. The terrible privacy policies of Microsoft. It sometimes makes you feel like your computer is not owned by you but lent to you by Big Tech.
  2. The community and the spirit of sharing
  3. The joy of "figuring it out" and customizing everything you want to the minutest details
  4. FREEDOM!!! sudo su Kinda ties into the previous points, but still one of the best selling points, the freedom to do whatever you want is liberating. You can run a server on it or you can create a script while knowing you have control over almost every FOSS app there is or just destroy your whole system with one command. Idk, feels good man!

These are the big ones, but one must realize you are sacrificing many things while not using windows too, productivity can be much greater there if you are a normie, it's really convenient! So yeah! Give me your reasons! Also, how many of you dual boot?

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[–] davel@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago

Windows is always going to be proprietary software, so I’m never going to give it the time of day.
Next question.

[–] GustavoM@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

I'm typing this from my orange pi zero 3 w/ dietpi installed... aaaaaaand I don't really "hate", but more like "not care about it anymore". Sure, its privacy concerns are truly a nightmare, but eh. It's good to have options, that's all. Even if one said "options" can be more harmful than good.

[–] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

I basically have one primary criteria in choosing operating systems: I want the one that gets the least in my way doing the things I want to do (whether that's something productive or entertainment). I don't care that I'm using Linux, it just happens to be Linux (or a Linux distro) that's currently better at getting out of my way than Windows (or macOS, or any other OS).

I've been evaluating Linux on my desktop like once per year maybe, and until recently Windows always won in terms of getting out of my way. I was using Windows 10 LTSC IoT before (because guess what: it got in my way less than regular Windows 10/11) and it was pretty good honestly, but what finally tipped the scales over for me was that Microsoft decided to let an update add unwanted entries into my start menu and re-enable the stupid search field in the task bar.

So I re-evaluated different Linux distributions last year, eventually landed on Fedora and together with swapping my Nvidia RTX 3080 for a Radeon 7800 XT for better Linux compatibility (especially with Wayland) and also Valve's Proton getting better and better, I started using a Linux distro full-time on my desktop January 1st, 2024.

Stuck with Fedora for a few months and landed at openSUSE Tumbleweed (after some annoyances regarding SELinux and other things iirc with the Fedora 40 update). Tumbleweed or rather the fact that it's bleeding edge had its fair share of issues in the last days (with some big releases like Mesa 24.1, Plasma 6.1 and some other packages being relatively buggy). This made me think about using a more stable distro like Debian or openSUSE Leap (I know there's also Slowroll, but some issues Tumbleweed has also roll over to it), but then again I pretty much always have fairly recent hardware in my PC, which usually demands somewhat recent kernels and other packages.

If I find that Windows gets less in my way tomorrow than what I'm currently using, I'll consider switching to Windows. Or macOS. Or Debian. Or FreeBSD. Etc.

[–] eveninghere@beehaw.org 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Poor workflow. Switching applications is horrible if you have 4 windows open in one desktop. Even gnome is far better at that.

[–] Subject6051@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 months ago

Can confirm, productivity tools like, "Pin on Top", "Always on Top" are absent Tiling was recently introduced And yes GNOME is better while Switching applications!

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Honestly, privacy and freedom of choice alone is why I switched back.

I will give windows credit, it's definitely better than any other platform out there when it comes to support and it is really nice just having things "just work". I went relatively 8 years having almost zero issues with gaming with the exception of my graphics driver which was a fault of AMD not necessarily Microsoft. All I would have to do is install a program maybe restart the computer and then run the program the way I went. With my current system I can't even guarantee if the software I want to use will work because the ecosystem is geared towards Microsoft so every product out there is Microsoft first Unix if we get around to it.

My only reason for switching was the lack of choice I was getting. While I never had to restart for updates because it automatically updated nightly when I turned it off so it was very non-invasive, the fact that I I wasn't trusted enough with my computer to be able to turn those updates completely off if I wanted to, on top of the fact that every major update seemed to hard push the office suite, and every update seemed to respect my privacy less and less was already putting me on the edge of switching every time that I had it happened to me.

But the recent rumor wave that was going through that Windows 10 when it reached end of life wasn't going to be the same way that every other OS that they've had has been where they will release security updates past closing and instead they're going to open the business only support tier to your Standard customer and offer Windows 10 at a subscription price instead, on top of the fact that Windows 11 wasn't going to support how I wanted to set my computer up without having to reinstall it anyway, I just took the plunge and went back to Linux. Overall it has been enjoyable, but I really do miss the ease of being able to just install something and have it work that comes with being in the dominant ecosystem. That being said, It is nice not having to worry about what a mega company thinks I should run the computers that I paid for, built, and set up myself.

[–] Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

better than any other platform out there when it comes to support

Lol, as a user Windows support is garbage. Every step is "restart, reinstall drivers, scannow".

None of those things are going to make windows pass all LR audio to the FLR channels of a 5.1 system, yet I know it's possible. It can happen if enough settings are fiddled with, but I don't know which ones, and it gets reset every reboot.

None of those things are going to stop some system utility maxing out disk writing and freezing the system for 10 minutes every boot.

None of those things will stop hardware acceleration from crashing my browser.

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah that's my fault, I wasn't clear with what type of support I was talking about, I should have put that line at the end of the paragraph that way it was clear I was talking about compatibility as the rest of that paragraph was and not software support.

But for the sake of responding to that comment, if we are talking about actual user support and not power user support, I think you'll find it hard to do the exact same things you have listed there under any of the other distributions, especially if it's using pulse audio or pipe wire as that's actually one of the issues that I encountered switching off of windows, as my headset has a double Channel mixer on it that separates chat and game and nothing so far has been able to properly identify it as that and I had to actually go in and tell it that it had two channels and even then the current GUI programs available are not able to handle it, so if I change anything it resets it again

[–] Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Pulseaudio can remap channels directly, so you can take a 7.1 input and output two entire stereo outputs to a 7.1 speaker system, which would solve my issue and then some. Making a custom profile is a tad more involved than clicking buttons, but CLI isn't needed at all.

I found a solution in under a minute that should work on most modern Linux DEs. I suppose it's not by an official Linux support channel, but AskUbuntu was literally the first search result.

Ah, support as in "this program is supported". I can definitely agree with that

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I have attempted every solution I have found so far on remapping the channels for my headset including adding specific device profiles for it, none of worked so far. My current solution is patchwork that was supposed to split them by adding a device profile that knows how the device is to separate them(because it uses a dual channel layout, one stereo one mono iirc with one being chat and the other game), but it lacks the ability to handle/process those channels as a whole so I only can use one of the two channels at a time but since I at least have one channel that's functional I have mostly given up on it. It's just annoying cause that was the main reason for getting this headset, the ability to have a chat mixer to change voice call volume and game volume separately, it's one of the few things that worked flawlessly on windows that I have been unable to get to work on the new system. I'm glad that you could find a solution that worked for you though, I have had no luck lol

that being said, if you know of a non-cli method of setting up pulseaudio custom profiles, I'm down to try that as well, maybe I just screwed my custom profiles up somewhere.

[–] crispy_kilt@feddit.de 3 points 4 months ago

Because it makes doing the things I want to do with a computer difficult and annoying.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Hate is a strong word, indifferent is more the word I'd use.
And I'm indeifferent because I have used (GNU)Linux as my main desktop OS since 2005, and (GNU)Linux exclusively for the past 15 years. And now even games run fine on Linux, so to me it's all benefits now.
So it's just that Windows and everything Microsoft is irrelevant now, except for a classic game I still play occasionally with my wife.

Obviously the proprietary nature with all the problems that includes, was what motivated me to shift originally, and it is also the reason I don't even want to dual boot Windows, not if it was free as in beer either.

  1. The joy of “figuring it out”

No absolutely not, I used to be an IT consultant, but like most people I like things to just work, and Linux has done that for many years now.
I do however like the freedom, and that I am not prevented from configuring my system like I want to. I remember Windows having the most ridiculous mechanisms to prevent me from for instance replacing something as banal as notepad as default/system text editor. Absolutely bullocks behavior by Microsoft IMO. I am very happy to have a system where I decide, and not some company that wants to lock me into their ecosystem.

PS: I have never tried anything Windows beyond Windows XP. But boy did Vista and Windows 8 convince me that I did the right thing switching to (GNU)Linux. Almost everybody I know were absolutely pissed about both.

Windows Vista was the most golden opportunity to buy expensive hardware for cheap, because it didn't have drivers for Vista. Laughing my ass off about people who claim hardware lacks drivers for Linux, when it's actually worse on Windows with every new release.

[–] Subject6051@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago
 The joy of “figuring it out”

No absolutely not, I used to be an IT consultant, but like most people I like things to just work, and Linux has done that for many years now.

My bad, I meant that for Linux.

except for a classic game I still play occasionally with my wife.

Cheers to that!

[–] vipaal@aussie.zone 2 points 4 months ago

A few months ago I blindly copied the hosts file from https://github.com/Ultimate-Hosts-Blacklist/Ultimate.Hosts.Blacklist as I was used to on BSD and Linux systems. It bricked Windows. Turns out that I had to use the installer script for Windows. Realised too late. That was my final goodbye to the Redmond giant.

For running a walled garden with iron grip, Apple allows copying the hosts file. Which I use for things like certification exams and any governmental agency stuffs.

[–] sfera@beehaw.org 2 points 4 months ago

I don't hate Windows but I hate being forced use it. I feel that I'm very effective when using Linux and just don't like when I am being slowed down. I want to use my machines to get things done and don't like it when operating systems and tools get in my way instead of enabling me to do what I need to do. Hating Windows is pointless because it's a waste of energy: it is what it is, why expect more?

[–] dinckelman@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Even with all the privacy concerns aside, I absolutely fucking despise it, when I cannot use my computer the way I want it to be used. That alone would have been enough to convince me to switch. Not to mention that trying to fix issues is a waste of effort, because the system internals are obscured into oblivion. Looking up any issue results in a generic "have you tried turning it off" answer from a Microsoft forum bot.

I like how the Linux kernel works, and I like how things around it are designed. It's much simpler, a lot more straight-forward, and I can setup shit how I like it. It's almost as if people who are working on Windows know that they want to tighten their grip over your system, to the extremes, but at the same time, don't have the reputation of Apple, to be let off the hook, when they pull complete bullshit moves every time

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online 1 points 4 months ago

This is what I say about Android. Drives me crazy

[–] minibyte@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Most Linux distributions and thus development feel like passion projects. Each time I try to revisit Windoze I feel like the product. That’s completely ignoring the customization I am provided in Linux. I don’t care about ricing. I just want a functional machine tailored to my use case, which is easier to do on FOSS.

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 4 months ago

I haven't used Windows in years and rarely think about it. But, ads. I hate ads with the burning fury of a thousand suns. Therefore, MS catches some fraction of that hate by putting them in the OS.

[–] TudbuT@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I find Linux to be MUCH easier to use. Granted, this is unusual, especially for an i3wm user, but hear me out: Although Linux has a very steep learning curve and using it seems very hard at first, this difficulty is short-lived. Getting anywhere is significantly faster and requires fewer steps, and the "simplicity" of windows quickly turns into complexity when you actually want to multitask and keep having to resize and click through dozens of windows.

Of course, I also really like the freedom of actually owning my system, and that of tinkering with all the software on it when I am annoyed at something not being how I'd like. Privacy is a nice bonus, but honestly the lesser concern since I already have none anyway by owning a phone and being too lazy to degoogle it.

[–] njordomir@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Good point. Startup effort is not the same as effort once you are comfortable with your system.

I had my turning point early on when I first learned to update all my packages from the terminal. For me, this changed the game compared to how Windows programs handled updates at the time and Linux became officially easier than Windows... for me.

I could see how this "point of equal ease", could come later for some users, especially those who want to run Windows software or do something advanced.

[–] HarriPotero@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn't say I hate Windows. I've had Windows 2.0 through NT 4.0 installed, but it was more of an application that I rarely started because it usually just interfered with my MS-DOS programs. DESQview was a much preferable option, as it had true multitasking (yes, so did NT 4.0 - but it broke a lot of things).

I dual booted DOS and Linux for a couple of years, but DOS box was good enough in 1997 that I rarely had to boot DOS, so I've been Linux only for a couple of decades.

Sounds like I should give Windows another try.

[–] liliumstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago

You should write a post if you do. Would be funny!

[–] bigmclargehuge@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Honestly, take away the PR blunders, bloatware, privacy nightmares, and ads, and I really just dislike how Windows works.

The file structure is the main one that really made me feel like Roddy Piper putting on the glasses. I was perfectly happy shambling around between Program Files this and LocalAppData that. As soon as I understood how logical and elegant the file structures that Linux uses is, there's no way I could ever go back.

Also, things like Settings, Device Manager, Control panel, and 2 or 3 other separate GUIs all containing A, the same settings 6 times over, or B, all containing different settings that should be consolidated. It's almost as if Microsoft can't stick with a design language or feature scope to save their lives, but they also can't get away with completely removing these old GUIs, so they just bury them and add another on top.

However, I can't say I actually hate Windows. I cut my teeth in computing on XP, and I see XPs DNA all over modern Windows (the aforementioned Control Panel being a remnant). I think without all the added garbage, Windows is actually an incredibly powerful, albiet obtuse and frustrating, piece of software.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 months ago

I have never hated Windows

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago

Someone can hate Windows for their own purposes while still acknowledging that it may be the ideal OS for the average consumer

[–] danhab99@programming.dev 1 points 4 months ago

Convention over configuration feels like such a fight when I'm trying to configure something

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