The people I'm describing as tankies are people I've interacted with myself. I'm sure they don't exist in huge numbers, but they are more concentrated on .ml, they are loud, and they are impossible to converse with. I still like it here because most people here, like yourself, are smart and offering interesting perspectives I haven't explored before.

I agree that the idea of only Eastern propaganda being dangerous and pervasive is wrong. Western propaganda is everywhere too and also dangerous.

One thing that is different is the lack of government-critical sources available from China, also Russia. Freedom of Speech in the West is wobbly, but in China and especially Russia it is even worse (from everything I've read).

This is a lovely segue into our China sidequest, and while I agree on the definition, I have doubts on how public the public sector really is. The way that national election results look and the way vocal dissidents or political opposition are treated does not give me the idea that the people truly have all the power here.

Capitalism concentrates power in the capitalist class. This class can then subvert democracy, resulting in oligarchy. In a similar way, central planning concentrates power in the central government, which actually makes it even easier to abuse that power. Chinese government is not transparent nor federal enough for me to call it democratic or owned by the people.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I appreciate you calling me smart and trying to have a conversation, however I want to stress something you said:

I’m saying that tankies claim to be communists but spend all day parroting their favorite Russian or Chinese state propaganda because they believe everything else is clearly controlled by Obamna™ himself. They rarely actually talk about communism, they just roam Lemmy all day calling everybody who disagrees with them a liberal :D

What you are seeing is one aspect of people, and moreover the ones with "favorite state propaganda" that distrust all western sources as liberal propaganda don't exist. Even just seeing people debating endlessly on Lemmy.ml is just one aspect, people frequently have different accounts or discuss Communism on different threads than the ones they get into debates in.

With respect to China, I encourage you to look into processes like Whole Process People's Democracy, State Owned Enterprises, and other aspects to see how Socialism with Chinese Characteristics works. I encourage you to read the article I linked, as well. Additionally, while I know you said you are an Anarchist, your point on centralization being a bad thing goes directly against Marxist understanding. I recommend the article Why Public Property?

Additionally, I encourage you to look beyond the western veil. There are plenty of Russia-critical sources and China-critical sources in the east.

Capitalism concentrates itself and centralizes, which prepares the productive forces for the mechanisms required to centerally plan them after folding them into the Public Sector. Central Planning is the only way to truly democratize production in the eyes of Marxists.

[–] Kieselguhr@hexbear.net 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

One thing that is different is the lack of government-critical sources available from China, also Russia.

Do you speak Chinese or Russian?

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No, and that's a good point actually. Although I think the state of political opposition both in Russia and China speaks volumes.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This might be a hard pill to swallow, but Putin is largely popular for assisting with throwing out the Western Capitalists that bought the various slices of the former USSR after "Shock Doctrine" killed 7 million people with the introduction of Capitalism, and the CPC has an over 90% approval rate. Political opposition is largely limited because both governments have more support among their citizenry than Western governments do.

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I'm actually really happy that you mentioned Shock Doctrine because last time I was arguing with a tankie they called Naomi Klein a US state sanctioned liberal :D

I already replied on another comment about the support

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Shock Doctrine is good theory regardless of whatever western brainworms reside in her. If people couldn't separate theory we'd have to throw the whole thing out with Marx's European brainworms.

[–] robinn_@hexbear.net 0 points 3 days ago

Even in the very beginning you see the Western brainworms dangled in your face, but there are good aspects to the book.

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 3 days ago

yep <3

Unfortunately I've hat the displeasure of "conversing" with a few people who are unable to handle even that level of nuance

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 days ago

Klein herself is fairly liberal, but the impact on the post-Soviet citizenry is apt. 7 million people died so that the West could profit.