this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2024
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You're siding with a regime that used neonazis to kill our comrades in front of it's goverment buildings, forced our Russian comrades to move from blunt weapons to firearms just to survive on the streets, supports crypto-fascist regimes, and openly finances French, German, Austrian, US neonazis, but claim we side with fascist? Hilarious. Maybe it's time you volunteer to 'Rusich', now officially a part of FSB?
Belarusian and Ukrainian refugees make up 1/4 of my city and half of the radical movement here. Like many of our comrades I've been traveling the region for over 20 years. Been to Moscow, been to deep Caucasian Russia, been to Ukraine a few times including the very areas that are now a battlefield and shared roof and drinks with comrades from other countries, who were now martyred there.
But still instead of hearing out someone who's committed their life to struggle, you're better educated based on something you've read on the internet. Nothing like a western colonial mindset over the experience of local, working people deciding to fight against oppression.
Their killers are now serving lifetime sentences with no chance for parole. And how were punished killers of our comrades Vadim Papura and Andrei Brazhevsky? There wasn't even proper investigation of their murder, and the regime which protects their killers is now actively supported by some shitheads pretending to be "antifa".
I remember those times very well as it was significant part of my early adulthood. The simple fact that some of those who fought for antifa at the time later decided to support the Nazi coup in 2014 does not change the simple truth that post-Maidan Ukraine is a neo-Nazi shithole, and these "antifa" (mostly, but not exclusively, from the Arsenal and MTZ-RIPO/Partizan fan bases) are nothing more than subcultural scum. Those of them who died fighting for this shit deserve no other honor than Darwin prize.
Now get fucked along with your friends and your "struggle".
The regime you ally yourself with is openly fascist. Period. You are a nazi lover.
In which policy exactly?
here's one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHWHqj8g7Bk
Help me out here. Someone describing reversing of the situation of his people is a nazi, but Russian state forcing that very situation on his people is anti-nazi? How does that work?
And as a side note what is this mans role in the administration? He holds any?
And how does that fare with Miedwiediew threatening half of Europe nuclear annihilation every few months? He chairs Security Council of the Russian Federation as far as I remmeber?
You're doing that whole whataboutism thing here. At best you can say both are bad, but you are actively supporting one side here. So, you have no moral high ground. You're just a nazi lover and you see Russians as the wrong nazis. It's hilarious how Europe keeps doing posturing and then acting all surprised that Russia is taking hostile stance towards them. You're such utter clowns, you should all get together and start a circus. Maybe that could be your new economic model.
You were meant to provide any proof of a actually fascist policy and the best you can come up with is an ex official with some generic threats in the middle of a war.
I dont see either side as nazis. Both sides obviously do use nazis, although on one side a Jew president sends them to die in the trenches and on the other a mafia oligarch sets them up in FSB and sponsors and enables them worldwide. Funny which one you consider nazis.
Still even as high on propaganda bullshit as you are you have to admit Russia is murdering Ukrainian children. If a threat of doing so is fascism, what is doing just that? Anti-fascism? How the fuck does that make any sense to you? How can that be equal to someone both murdering and attempting to terrorize the rest of the continent so they dont get seriously involved to stop the butchering of Ukrainians? How come Russia has the right to defend their interests beyond its border including sending troops, but no other country has such right? How is it threathened by Ukraine possibly joining NATO but was not when Finland joined? Particularly with that threathening the control over northern passage, not some easy to controll broad open fields? How do you even make any sense of this to yourself?
And if you do, following your bullshit logic - why wouldent say Poland, with 200 years of history of Russian occupation, forced assimilation, forced migration and straight up genocide by Russian empire, should not do anything in its power to stop a neighboring country from again falling to such a state? Same arguments you use would justify Polands invasion of Bealarus and thretening to nuke Moscow if they step up. You're to blinded to see the absurdity of your arguments and make a strawman of what you think I support, without at least reading what I clearly state, so cut your bullshit about whataboutism and moral high grounds Putin's fanboy. Western europe attempted to reson with Russian government, cut them deals and made their elites filthy rich while doing it, while most of the country still looks like a cyberpunk distopia and is ruled like any failed 3rd world dictatorship, which it now is.
"I feel threathened so I might vaporize you all unless you subdue to our imperialism" sounds like a underdog we should be cheering. You are beyond laughable.
My dude, there are mountains of evidence for actual fascist policies in Ukraine. I literally linked you Poroshenko openly talking about doing ethnic cleansing. Absolutely hilarious you'd be trying to pull Jewish president bullshit when Israel is conducting a genocide in Gaza. Maybe at least try to update the talking points you've memorized.
Still even as high on propaganda bullshit as you are you have to admit that the war could've been over in the first two months if the west didn't step in and stop negotiations. You scum are the ones actively doing everything you can to drag it out.
I can't wait till the US bails you lot and then we'll see how brave you all.
Yet you did not link to any. Random speech is not a policy, Poroshenko is not an Ukrainian official or a government member, as opposed to Miedwiedew who is and is threatening nuclear annihilation even to non-combatants, aside from aiding the kidnapping of Ukrainian children which is literally a form of genocide.
Any non-russian sources for that claim? And no, the war would not be over, you'd have guerilla war for decades. You understand nothing of Slavic mentality nor know nothing of the history of the region.
Oh, and what will we do without all the marvelous US help? Repeat history I guess...
I did, but you just keep ignoring it. However, since you keep insisting I'll link some more as was widely reported by western media. The fact that you keep pretending they don't exist shows that you're a liar.
And of course, then there are nazis running rampant in Ukraine including the highest levels of government
Plenty, even Nuland has admitted this just recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiS2dg_atfc
Ukrainian negotiators confirmed it https://www.aaronmate.net/p/ukraines-top-negotiator-confirms
Arestovich confirmed it it https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1975okx/ua_pov_arestovich_in_english_says_he_and_the_rest/
A member of the negotiating team confirming this https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/11/24/7430282/
The fact that you don't know this shows what an utter ignoramus you are. I guess one has to be to ally himself with fascists.
Both my parents were born in Ukraine you sad troll, I think I understand Slavic mentality perfectly well. Something ignorant nazi boot lickers such as yourself will never understand.
There won't be any guerrilla war for decades because all the fascists you love so much have gone to die on the front already or fled the country. At this point the fascist regime you support is reduced to kidnapping people off the street and gang pressing them to fight.
Finally, let me educate you a bit on Ukraine since you're utterly clueless about it. It was cobbled together by USSR and eastern parts of Ukraine were part of Russia, and are inhabited by Russian speaking people who see themselves as Russian. Again, don't take my word for it. We can take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here's the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here's how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Ukraine is not some homogeneous blob, but a large country with complex cultural and ethnic situations. Most people outside western parts of Ukraine never wanted this war, and they just want the war to end. The way this all ends is that everything except the nationalist rump state will be absorbed into Russia and then Europe will be left to deal with the remaining far right nationalist who will feel betrayed by you lot, and who have been making contacts with fascists all across Europe this whole time, sending them all the weapons that disappeared. Enjoy what's coming to you.
None of this justfies invading another country, unless you want to justify invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq.
Talking about justifying things is just a way to do moralizing. The way to avoid conflicts is by developing understanding for the interests and concerns of different nations, and treating one another with respect. After the fall of USSR, the west decided that it can ignore Russia's security concerns and keep pushing an aggressive military alliance onto Russian borders. That's what caused the war.
Plenty of western experts have been warning about this for decades on end. This only became controversial to mention after the war started. Here's what Chomsky has to say on the issue recently:
https://truthout.org/articles/us-approach-to-ukraine-and-russia-has-left-the-domain-of-rational-discourse/
https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/
50 prominent foreign policy experts (former senators, military officers, diplomats, etc.) sent an open letter to Clinton outlining their opposition to NATO expansion back in 1997:
George Kennan, arguably America's greatest ever foreign policy strategist, the architect of the U.S. cold war strategy warned that NATO expansion was a "tragic mistake" that ought to ultimately provoke a "bad reaction from Russia" back in 1998.
Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, warning in 1997 that NATO expansion was "the most profound strategic blunder, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious security threat [...] since the Soviet Union collapsed"
Even Gorbachev warned about this. All these experts were marginalized, silenced, and ignored. Yet, now people are trying to rewrite history and pretend that Russia attacked Ukraine out of the blue and completely unprovoked.
Ok, so how come Finland in NATO is not a problem?
Look at a map sometime and learn a bit of history. Finland borders a very difficult forested terrain, and Russia has never been invaded through Finland. However, Russia has been invaded multiple times through Ukraine.
Yeah, absolutely no invasions going over these forests whatsoever, apart for say these;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimosodat
But I guess it's only an invasion and imperialism if it happens to Russia?
Oh, and most effective ones against Russia itself? Never bothered with Ukraine;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Russian_War_(1609%E2%80%931618)
Even for nazis Ukraine was one of three axis of attack, but they never reached as far as the earlier two, partially due to the massive distances over the steppes.
So the fuck you talking about? Especially claiming to know any of the history of the region? Kiev Rus? Yeah, Moscow basically did not exist when it was at it's height of power ffs. If you bothered to learn any history every surrounding country, including China, considers them a imperialist dangerous neighbor willing to invade given any chance, and always working toward that. With the small difference China is probably already marking Siberia as it's territory nowdays.
And obviously you're pretending that neither has the technology changed, and obviously 1000km of steppe is the best possible approach, since aircraft, drones, satellites and tactical missiles of nukes are not an option... This NATO bullshit was clearly checked when Scandinavians joined, Královec by the Baltic is now surrounded by it, borders extended in a tarain much harder to secure, a key new possible lifeline for Russian economy is threatened by Finish and Norwegian proximity, but no, somehow Ukraine would be a threat, and that's why the fighting focuses not on a direction of capital, but on the resource rich areas. How can you be so blind?
Maybe should read the wiki links you're spamming? 😂
What I'm talking about, is that Ukraine is a big wide open steppe through which majority of the invading forces attack. The fact that you can't understand this really is phenomenal.
And obviously you're ignorant of how actual warfare works given then you think you can win a war without ground invasion. You're like a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Out of 2 forces that reached Moscow, which one went through Ukraine?
BTW another pro-peace undertaking of Russia: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/18/russia-vetoes-sudan-ceasefire-resolution-at-un-security-council
Oh look, the same clown who's cheering for Ukrainians to keep dying in a senseless war pretends to give a fuck about people in Sudan. You ain't fooling anybody.
Out of 2 forces that reached Moscow, which one went through Ukraine?
Out of 2 brain calls you have available which one did you use to write that reply?
You'd do anything not to accept the fact, that your argument is absolute bullshit, wouldn't you?
Poles raided Moscow, and set their Czar btw, going straight through current day Belarus. So did the French reach it. So attempted the Germans. The argument of Ukraine being needed for that has no basis neither in history nor modern warfare.
It's obvious that you're not interested in honest or rational discussion here and just keep deflecting. I love how you think you're being clever while being utterly transparent.
What's "deflecting" about giving you very simple, clear historical evidence your argument is invalid?
your reply had fuck all to do with the comment you replied to
Faced with the fact that you don't actually give a shit about other people, you simply hop on to a different topic like the clown that you are.
You're hillarious, here's a refresher of your own escaping https://lemmy.ml/comment/15056594
I'm not escaping anything there, but hey you cope the best you can there.
You claim Finland is somehow impossible to cross, even tho Russia itself invaded over these terrains at least 3 times in the XX century. You claim Ukraine is somehow key to Russian security even tho both times Moscow was reached by European countries it was done over Belarus. I'm coping? That is nearly funny.
The fact that Russia had as much difficulty in Winter War as they did actually shows why Finland is bad terrain. It's hilarious how you keep doubling down on your idiocy here.
You picked the one with the worst effect for Russia out of three, yes, but still won by Russia, so what was your point exactly?
And have you ever seen any footage of actual fighting in Ukraine? It's either armored units getting butchered in the open fields, or tree-lines being the only safe means of approach and defensible entrenched positions.
Finland is exactly the type of terrain that enables modern military action. Unless you're expecting NATO to use heavy cavalry, or (the earlier) battle of Kursk style mass tank formations, which is by now even less likely then cavalry. Pick your favorite highway of death between the Iraqi and the north of Kyiv one for a reality check my dear tank aficionado. Not to mention the absolutely spectacular position of Severomorsk - northern fleet command, relative to NATO borders nowadays. Or the fact that Russia is in reality so scared of NATO that there's hardly any equipment or experienced troops left in that region currently as a cherry on top.
Yeah, I've seen plenty of footage of fighting in Ukraine, and if you pay attention to Kursk then you'll see how much harder fighting there is because of terrain. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, yet you're brimming with confidence. Absolutely incredible stuff.
How is the terrain there different?
look at a map sometime, Kursk is a heavily forested area
You don't have to justify all invasions to justify some invasions?
If someones argument justifies pretty much any invasion, including some of the most egregious and vile wars in history there might be something wrong with the argument, or holding such an opinion.
But it doesn't? Iraq is on the other side of the world from the US, Ukraine is on Russia's border, they're just totally different contexts.
Oh but oil prices are the single most important factor to US policy, so any country that can influence them is a threat obviously? Just as much as possible Ukrainian NATO border is, but Finish NATO border is not, you know, it's all logical!
You realize Finland is farther North than Ukraine? There's lots of ice most of the year. With hilly terrain. And it's very forested. There's not a lot of actual crossing points in that border, in an invasion it would require building lots of infrastructure that just doesn't exist. Moving troops and tanks across the border would be slow and difficult. I think Russia would change its tune on Finland if they suddenly started building lots of infrastructure to enable border crossing, but for now it's not really a threat.
Ever heard of north passage opening? Basically main economic oportunity for Russia other then its raw materials?
Yes, that would change geopolitics dramatically. That also probably won't happen for a few decades until the ice caps melt a lot more, though.
https://gcaptain.com/first-panamax-containership-sprints-across-arctic-reaching-china-in-just-three-weeks/
Like I said. In a few decades the Northern passage will just be an open sea route most of the year.