this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2024
1298 points (99.2% liked)
Technology
59566 readers
4890 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
It's a service if the only way to remote start the car, from the factory, is via a third party like 5G or LTE.
How are all those 3G car services faring these days? There were cars as recent as M.Y. 2019 that have reduced functionality or no functionality that was originally paid for.
What will it look like when LTE and 5G are inevitably shutdown and replaced?
It's one thing to say I have to buy a new $1000 phone. They almost go obsolete in other ways, or suffer extensive physical damage before the cellular radios get turned off. It's another thing to say that a feature of an $80,000 car is gone forever. Even if it's just a creature-comfort like remote start or remote windows. It's bullshit.
And then what? A $1500 credit off my next car of the same make for my 'inconvenience'? Fuck right the fuck off. How much more does it cost to let a fob toggle it, from the factory floor?
And besides that who the fuck wants to dig out an app to start their car when you could just have a physical button right there on the key? Having voice assistants or routines start it for you is cool and all, but it is well known that those will be obsoleted long before the rest of the car.
Small correction here:
These services have nothing to do with 3g, 5g or wifi. All those are just communication protocols that phones use to connect to the internet, and neither your phone, nor their apps nor their servers will care a dime about those. Of 6g comes out or 5g disappears, nothing changes.
As long as the provider keeps their servers for your services up, the service is there. And that's where the problem lies. It's not the cost. A single 100 dollar / month server could easily cover all remote starts world wide, it really doesn't require that much.
Decisions to take down these services and screw over paying customers are typically made my middle and upper management, to force people to buy their new crap
Yeah, it's still crap. I'm not trying to defend these products requiring paid services, it's shite and I would only use open sourced services, I'm just saying that the technology is a little different than you said
The problem is the cell modem in the car, which is hard to replace. Cars last a lot longer than phones do. When whatever network that the car uses shuts down, then you can't remote start your car. That's a marginal cost that the car company has to pay for.
I was wondering, what makes the modem that hard to replace?
I get that the embedded systems in cars are complex works of engineering, but I don't see why there can't be some sort of standardized physical interface akin to OBDII to be used to 'upgrade' the modem.
Nothing, except right-to-repair, or rather the lack of it.
It could just use a standard USB or mini pci-e modem and make it super easy to replace. If the were concerned about unauthorized use, they could easily make it so that a key stored in the cars TPM is necessary for the modem to connect to the tower, making the modem a commodity field replaceable part.
But they choose not to. They choose to make a proprietary part that only works in their cars and is only manufactured by them. They make it so the car won't recognize it if it isn't activated by a dealer shop computer.
Then, when the technology it's based on is obsoleted, either they decide to make a proprietary part to sell you and only they can install...or they say "Wow that sucks. I guess we could knock a few hundred off a new car for you then?". More than likely, it's the latter. You probably already had your car for a few years and the honeymoon phase is long past. You don't even care if it gets a little ding or scratch anymore. They know that.
Or...now hear me out...they could've just been using RF fobs for remote start that's point-to-point, instead of enshittifying fucking remote start by making it rely on a third-party.
But then they wouldn't need you to install an app that needs a million fucking permissions. To start your car remotely. Something that a postage-stamp sized PCB has been doing since ET was in theaters the first time.
Support right-to-repair when it's on your ballot. Auto manufacturers put a lot of money into lobbying against it every time. And it's usually fear-based propaganda that isn't grounded in reality at all. The fact is, they made the system this way, on purpose, to protect profits and for no other reason. Fuck them. Fuck them right in the tushie.
There's another angle to this, too. If the cellular modem is easy to replace, it would also be easy to remove, cutting off one of the big reasons why the car manufacturers want it there: data that they can sell.
Which makes this whole topic even more frustrating because that connection is worthwhile for them to have even without the customer paying for the cellular subscription because they are selling the data but Mazda is still greedy enough to want an extra $120 a year for something that could have been included as an afterthought.
You just reminded me that's it's illegal to have a tracking device on someone's car without their knowledge. If you buy a car second hand and they are tracking you , then that's probably against the law.
The main benefit of having a remote start app is that you can use it from far away like when you're inside of your workplace where a fob won't work.
And while that's very convenient, I'm sure that's the reason the app always wants to know my precise location. So it can remind me that the train I'm on isn't at the station my car is parked at. As if I'm unaware.
It's possible, but it costs money to design the hardware so it's accessible, it has to use a connector which has to be robust against vibrations (is m.2 robust?), then there needs to be a standardized protocol to communicate with the card. Does the car computer need to know how to authenticate against the cell network or does the card? Is it industry standardized or specific to the manufacturer? All kinds of things need to be designed and car manufacturers have no reason to invest in they.
Cellular generations will last as long as most people will even keep their car. That's not really a concern. My A4 has the 3G antennae replacement as a recall they're doing for free. What a company has to pay for is planned on implementation. Bonus niche perks used to be a reason why you went with one company over another company. Now everything into a subscription because it's free income.
If the car uses 5g, ang 5g is no longer available, how do you connect to a server